What do you like in a RPG?

[Aussiegamer]

yes the idea of the thread is to say whats like in a system not the name the system and thats all, like some have.

In the end I like a complex PC creation but as I said a simple combat system.

I think that your right to talk about the on going use of the system, as it can become a bit ho-hum doing the same things over and over.

I do think though setting is independant of the system, as most settings can be bent to fit a system but not all systems can be bent to fit the campiagn.

 

[librarius_arcana]

My wish list for an ideal game (and some of them counter-act each other, so its probably a "dream" game):

1. Speedy character creation.

2. Lots of character options, so that I can create the character I want (and I can come up with some obscure ideas, believe me )

3. I like class-based character creation, whether traditional in D&D or points-based templates as in WoD games. Classes should be dripping with setting flavour - they inspire character ideas and show you the type of character you should be playing in the setting (one reason why True 20 worries me, although the settings out there seem to add something in this direction).

4. Combat should be fast-paced and flow. Combat represents the most exiting part of the books, TV shows and films we're trying to recreate, so it can't stagnate and get bogged down as too many D20 system games do.

5. Combat should allow me lots of different options to play around with - combat is the "game" part of a rolepaying game, and plays a big factor in my enjoyment of the game.

6. Combat should have clear rules of play, so that I can play around with strategy as a player, not just win by building the better character.

7. All of the game, including combat, should allow the player to take control of the narrative to some degree, like the dramatic editing rules in "Adventure!".

8. Finally, and probably most importantly, a game should have a fantastic setting, and mechanics (particualrly character mechanics) that capture the feel of the setting.

Cheerio,

Ben

That sounds alot like white wolf's "Adventure"

 

[Odhanan]

Not referring to any RPG system, what is it you like about it?

Say you like the skills set up or the psionics system or the combat system?

And why?

I like combat systems where as a defender, you roll for parry or dodge instead of just waiting for the die result of the attacker. This seems to me better, because you have both attacker and defender rolling, which in a very small and limited metagame way recreates the feeling of competing to touch each other and defend against the agressor. I and the players can then describe the actions more accurately and involve mistakes, excitement, and so on for a more -for lack of a better word- "cinematic" experience.

That's why, in my D&D games, the defenders roll their AC. It is 1d20+modifiers instead of 10+modifiers, unless you are helpless or flat-footed. This is also one of the big design concepts (attack vs. parry or dodge rolls) that make me love the Basic Role-playing system (i.e. d100 system used for Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer et al).

 

[Psion]

1. Chargen that is deep for players yet speedy for the GM. (Only one game I know of lives up to this as is... others take house ruling.)
2. No bossy personality mechanics, but means to define personality (especially motivations.) Motivation is probably the single most important aspect that you have to define a character as having.
3. Structured chargen. Doesn't necessarily have to be class based, but class based (when well done) is a good example. I reject the notion that class based in inherently bad and advertising that you game "lacks restricting classes" is a sure way to ensure I don't look at your game. I don't find universal freedom of choice to be a good feature of a game; the game has to facilitate the mileu being represented.
4. Options for challenges other than combat. I need conflict other than combat. Probably comes from my Traveller background.

 

[malladin]

1. Chargen that is deep for players yet speedy for the GM. (Only one game I know of lives up to this as is... others take house ruling.)
2. No bossy personality mechanics, but means to define personality (especially motivations.) Motivation is probably the single most important aspect that you have to define a character as having.
3. Structured chargen. Doesn't necessarily have to be class based, but class based (when well done) is a good example. I reject the notion that class based in inherently bad and advertising that you game "lacks restricting classes" is a sure way to ensure I don't look at your game. I don't find universal freedom of choice to be a good feature of a game; the game has to facilitate the mileu being represented.
4. Options for challenges other than combat. I need conflict other than combat. Probably comes from my Traveller background.

1. Interesting - which system?

2. I'd go with that too. I didn't think of it when I was doing my list, which probably means I don't rate it as crucial, but certainly an advantage in a system.

3. "I reject the notion that class based in inherently bad and advertising that you game "lacks restricting classes" is a sure way to ensure I don't look at your game." I'm with you on that one.

I also find that most players don't read the background, at least until they've played a few sessions and decided how much they like the game, so having classes to give players an instant hook into the setting is crucial.

I think the anti-classes mindset stems from previous incarnations of D&D (and potentially other similar games) where the class system wasn't well done. 3rd ed onwards, and particularly D20M and True20 have changed this through class options and multiclassing, making the game a lot more flexible. Also, some people who say they don't like classes actually are talking more about class/level systems, and actually play systems that have classes and point-buy character systems, such as new/old WoD games.

As a side note on classes, I think there's another strength to a class/level system specifically, in that it ensures character balance and makes sure your charaters are better rounded than a point-buy system, where there usually are avenues for min-maxing at the expense of your character's concept (a bad think IMO, I don't mind min-maxing when it helps you build your character to a concept that you don't quite have the points for, but if you just go for power over theme it's something I'd look to discourage).

4. I definately agree with this - I think my previous post probably over stressed the emphasis I place on combat. Ah well.

Cheerio for now,

Ben

 

[malladin]

That sounds alot like white wolf's "Adventure"

It does, and that is a game I truely love. However, I'm not sure it provides the options and tactical edge in combat that I like from D20. So far I don't think there is a game that does everything on my list, so I suppose I'll just write to make one .

Ben

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

1. Chargen that is deep for players yet speedy for the GM. (Only one game I know of lives up to this as is... others take house ruling.)
2. No bossy personality mechanics, but means to define personality (especially motivations.) Motivation is probably the single most important aspect that you have to define a character as having.
3. Structured chargen. Doesn't necessarily have to be class based, but class based (when well done) is a good example. I reject the notion that class based in inherently bad and advertising that you game "lacks restricting classes" is a sure way to ensure I don't look at your game. I don't find universal freedom of choice to be a good feature of a game; the game has to facilitate the mileu being represented.
4. Options for challenges other than combat. I need conflict other than combat. Probably comes from my Traveller background.

How do you think that personality mechanics should be used? Is it something like code of honor mechanics that you're trying to avoid, stuff which dictates behavior?

Also, what sort of structured chargen systems are there besides level ones? Degree of structure is what I'm asking, I suppose. I consider point-buy systems like GURPS to be structured, provided that the systems can handle a breadth of character mechanics without having to hand-wave things that a character wants to do.

For myself, I'm mostly a GM, so "easy to prepare" would be pretty high on my list of good system traits. That's why I'm turning away from D20 right now, it seemed like I spent all my time crunching mechanics to prep for the game.

For chargen, I think "robust" is how I'd prefer to describe things. The system should be quick and efficient, but flexible enough to allow for people to create the characters they want- and to back those characters up with mechanics that allow them to do stuff within the game. I've seen tons of games that claim to be about one thing (Story, politics, whatever) and then don't do squat to make it a mechanical reality.

Essentially, the sytem should be designed to encourage the players to act in a means which supports the setting or system's base assumptions. So if you want a heroic game, it shouldn't have gritty combat mechanics.

 

[Psion]

1. Interesting - which system?

Spycraft 2.0.

Savage Worlds aspires to it, but at its deepest, it seems too shallow for me.

 

[Psion]

How do you think that personality mechanics should be used?

Again, the main thing I need is to extract motivators from the players. Any chargen sequence that encorages that is a good thing.

Is it something like code of honor mechanics that you're trying to avoid, stuff which dictates behavior?

Well, there's a thin line between bossy and appropriate. I guess I'd say I prefer a carrot to a stick approach. Something that encourages the players to define and pursue character motivations is a good thing, as it provides the GM with the tools to keep the adventure moving and interesting. But things that tell the character what they will do seems a bit much.

One mechanic I batted around back in the old RPG Design discussion forum was a pool of willpower points. Character traits could be positive or negative depending on the situation. For example, your character might be greedy, but if you spent a willpower point while doing a check that pursued greed, it granted you a bonus. But to avoid consequences of a trait, you would also have to spend willpower points. The idea here is that the game encourages you to stick with the traits that motivate your character, but don't demand it.

Anyways, it may be of some assistance to read this article on flag framing to understand what I am talking about when I speak of motivators:
http://bankuei.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_bankuei_archive.html (the bit on conflict webs is a good read too, but sort of tangential to what we are talking about here)

Also, what sort of structured chargen systems are there besides level ones? Degree of structure is what I'm asking, I suppose. I consider point-buy systems like GURPS to be structured, provided that the systems can handle a breadth of character mechanics without having to hand-wave things that a character wants to do.

I do not consider GURPS chargen to be structured in this sense, short of requiring players to use templates. Yeah, I used the term structured, perhaps I should have used the term focused. But let me lay it out for you: what I mean to say is that I disdain freeform point buy systems.

Classes are one way to realize structure of the sort I speak of. Other examples include professions in classic call of Cthulhu or Cyberpunk, to a lesser extent the various tribes or similar constructs in World of Darkness games. In short, I prefer some sort of mechanic that encourages players to group their PC's skill sets logically, and helps prevent characters from becoming over-specialized or over-generalized.

 

[Treebore]

The system I am playing, which has a simple but flexible core engine, that allows my players and I to attempt to do whatever we think of, smooth and simple combat, plus a mechanic that lessens the impact of high or low stats. Plus the mechanic is versatile enough that I can easily use any of my D&D material from any edition with ease. Its taken 20 years, but the perfect system for my personal tastes and style has been created. I am one happy gamer!