Dragonlance What do you think of the Kender?

[Ancalagon]

Couldn't Taunt negate the Auto-Advantage on attack rolls against a Kender Barbarian using Reckless Attack, while still allowing the Kender Barbarian to have Auto-Advantage attacks against the opponent, who now doesn't have advantage?

no, because taunt imposes disadvantage on attack against other targets, not on the kender. So unless there is a pair of kenders....

 

[Ancalagon]

I think they are a thinly veiled halfing that was created for copyright reasons.

I've read both source material... Comparing a kender to a hobbit is comparing a 50 cent hotdog to an Italian pizza

 

[Clint_L]

Keep in mind that the Dragonlance books were published at a time when there was a ton of fantasy young adult literature being put out, and almost all of it was just ripping off Tolkien. Every setting had its version of hobbits, elves, orcs, etc. I think everyone was just getting tired of it.

 

[Stormonu]

Dull, lifeless design pursuing simplicity regardless of the cost to the experience.

In other words, it's a perfect fit for 5e.

Personally, I'm burnt out from 3E on everything having to have a mechanic advantage or purpose. I'd rather see more emphasis on the uniqueness and RP opportunities than a bunch of easily-forgotten minor mechanical benefits.

 

[ART!]

Taunt seems like a weird thing for an entire race to have, but [shrugs].

I have almost no exposure to kender, having never read a D&D-branded novel, and I only vaguely remember them from...was it 2nd edition? So, I don't have any investment one way or the other.

 

[Azzy]

I honestly never encountered any complaints about Kender until the internet (and I probably only became aware of the criticism after 2010). It might just have been that the kender worked for the sense of humor in area I lived in. Or maybe we just used them differently. But it never created any bad blood. There were plenty of other types of characters I saw create issues at the table (but those were usually a product of the players gaming style rather than something inherent in the class or race choice they were making).

While the one kender player that played in one of my campaigns was not a problem-causing jerk, I've heard the horror stories from convention-goers since the 90s. So, no, this isn't just an internet thing.

 

[Bedrockgames]

While the one kender player that played in one of my campaigns was not a problem-causing jerk, I've heard the horror stories from convention-goers since the 90s. So, no, this isn't just an internet thing.

I'm not saying it is just an internet thing. I am just saying I never heard about it as an issue locally until I was on the internet. My attitude is I really can only judge based on what works at tables I actually play at. Anything beyond that is possibly going because of other play styles, personalities, etc. I was never one to play kender much myself but as a GM and a player I was a fan of them when someone decided to play one.

 

[Clint_L]

I've read both source material... Comparing a kender to a hobbit is comparing a 50 cent hotdog to an Italian pizza

Yeah, that's the point. That's why a lot of folks just rolled their eyes at Kender.

 

[humble minion]

While the one kender player that played in one of my campaigns was not a problem-causing jerk, I've heard the horror stories from convention-goers since the 90s. So, no, this isn't just an internet thing.

Jerks are gonna jerk, and con games with strangers where there's no long-term social or in-game consequences for jerkitude offer a perfect opportunity for jerking. I wonder how many of these kender-playing con jerks would have been equally jerkish playing dwarf fighters or whatever, or indeed whether they only played the game at all because they wanted to indulge in jerkhood and playing a kender gave them an excuse.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

• Floating ASIs as normal now, Common plus one lang

Do Kender have their own language? I can't remember.

A weirdly huge number of PC races don't have languages nowadays and not even a suggestion of one. (Surely all the fey races should have Sylvan as a suggestion, as it's the Common of the Feywild, no?)

 

[humble minion]

I

Do Kender have their own language? I can't remember.

I think Kenderspeak was a thing, back in the original modules.

Yep, here is is. Alhana speaks it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Kender all got genocided a long time ago. I suppose if your world has time travel stats could be useful.

 

[Azzy]

Jerks are gonna jerk, and con games with strangers where there's no long-term social or in-game consequences for jerkitude offer a perfect opportunity for jerking. I wonder how many of these kender-playing con jerks would have been equally jerkish playing dwarf fighters or whatever, or indeed whether they only played the game at all because they wanted to indulge in jerkhood and playing a kender gave them an excuse.

Who knows? But I was responding to what I (mistakenly?) saw as a claim to there being no pre-internet source for the claim of problematic kender. Still, kender lore gives more of an excuse to play like a jerk than dwarf fighters. /:

 

[Demetrios1453]

I think Kenderspeak was a thing, back in the original modules.

Yep, here is is. Alhana speaks it.

It's still a thing - it's listed in the languages in the new book.

Also, Tika should be a dual-classed thief/fighter, and it even shows her thief skills, so I wonder why they didn't list her thief level on the card. I'm guessing she was around 3 - 4 or so, given that she's exceeded that level and has her thief skills available again, although I think that STR score would technically not allow her to dual-class with those lovably complex 1e dual-classing rules...

 

[ECMO3]

I

I think Kenderspeak was a thing, back in the original modules.

Yep, here is is. Alhana speaks it.

Kenderspeak is also an option in DND Beyond (at least it is if you have SODQ), but I have not actually seen it mentioned in the character creation part of the book.

 

[ECMO3]

It's still a thing - it's listed in the languages in the new book.

Also, Tika should be a dual-classed thief/fighter, and it even shows her thief skills, so I wonder why they didn't list her thief level on the card. I'm guessing she was around 3 - 4 or so, given that she's exceeded that level and has her thief skills available again, although I think that STR score would technically not allow her to dual-class with those lovably complex 1e dual-classing rules...

No only is Tika an illegal Dual Class, she is also in Plate (which I assume means Plate Mail) which would make her unable to use her Thief abilities. Her AC is also wrong and should be 1 in Plate Mail with a 16 Dexterity. Meanwhile the Fighter, Ranger and Cleric are sporting leather armor.

 

[James Gasik]

As I recall, Tika's plate armor was actually piecemeal, scavenged from fallen enemies, so that might justify the AC. And there's nothing wrong with her not being able to use her thieving abilities (she could take off the armor if she had to use them, but they're kind of shabby in the first place). I can't say anything as to her illegal dual-class though; Dragonlance was always a weird setting, since it was based on novels where the rules of D&D were never allowed to get in the way of the story. As a result, some rules are set in granite, and others are more like suggestions of rules, and you never could tell which way something was going to go.

 

[Demetrios1453]

No only is Tika an illegal Dual Class, she is also in Plate (which I assume means Plate Mail) which would make her unable to use her Thief abilities. Her AC is also wrong and should be 1 in Plate Mail with a 16 Dexterity. Meanwhile the Fighter, Ranger and Cleric are sporting leather armor.

Heh, I didn't even look at that section of the stats. By the level they are at, they should all be in plate, especially since they've been through Thorbardin by this point with a grateful dwarven population probably more than willing to make some for them. Even if that weren't the case, they've been through enough that they should have been able to scavenge some chain at the very least...

 

[humble minion]

It’s been a loooong time, but I very vaguely recall Tika’s thief skills being called out somewhere as explicitly an exception to the normal dual classing rules. She was just implemented as a fighter, who happened to have thief skills from her childhood, rules be damned.

 

[Demetrios1453]

It’s been a loooong time, but I very vaguely recall Tika’s thief skills being called out somewhere as explicitly an exception to the normal dual classing rules. She was just implemented as a fighter, who happened to have thief skills from her childhood, rules be damned.

It's funny how easy that would be to do in 5e rules (she's a fighter with the Urchin background, maybe a level or two in rogue, although that wouldn't be strictly necessary), and how much it broke the rules in 1e.