What do you use as the "ultimate" evil?

[avin]

I've been wondering for a while if it's just me that don't assume Orcus, Demogorgon and dudes like them as the "ultimate evil".

They are in the cover of the last two monster manuals, fairly common ground these days. Every player meta-know who they are: Orcus, Demogorgon, Baphomet, Dispater, Graz'zt, etc. There's no surprise, no mistery and that don't work very well for me.

So, in my games there's always something hidden, strong, fierce... creatures, or maybe the essence of evil, that represents a mistery even for the archdevils, taunting them, whispering mad secrets... infusing them with power.

What about your experience? Are your games straight to the MM devils and demons or there's something different around?

 

[blalien]

The D&D games I run are always person-driven. All of the problems the PCs have to solve are caused by people with real motives, not some fundamental force of evil. As a result, I always avoid evil outsiders, deities who directly interfere with the campaign, and undead who were not specifically created by a spellcaster. So I guess I'm the worst possible person to respond.

 

[Aeolius]

Tharizdun

 

[Nifft]

I've got many flavors of evil! Each one is evil in its own special way.

Demons: want to corrupt the mortal world.

Devils: want to enslave the mortal world, and enslaved as mindless undead is just fine (but not required).

Shadow-critters: want to kill all living mortals (in self defense).

Vecna: just needs a few (million) more souls to induce divinity! He'd like to get them all at once, too, so he can't be rudely interrupted (again) by the other gods.

Primordials: don't hate mortals, just want to destroy civilization, and the worship of the gods.

Aberrations: love mortals! Particularly raw!

Cheers, -- N

 

[Aus_Snow]

Whichever 'big bad'/big bads is/are currently ascendant, ubiquitous, or most far-reaching, I guess. This has been lots of stuff in various campaigns. Humans, 'elves', demons, 'drow' (hm, patterns?), aberrations, deity/deities. . .

 

[avin]

The D&D games I run are always person-driven. All of the problems the PCs have to solve are caused by people with real motives, not some fundamental force of evil.

In fact, I DM in a similar way, there's always motive behind action.

That said, D&D has a cosmology, with gods and legendary evils (with their own motivations), my post was more about these devils/demons being the toughest adversary around.

On a side not, evil/deities is seen different by different races and cultures.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

On a side not, evil/deities is seen different by different races and cultures.

D&D has Alignments. Evil isn't relative.

 

[Elephant]

D&D has Alignments. Evil isn't relative.

Depends on the campaign, I guess.

The Ultimate Evil is House Cannith. Large, bureaucratic organization? Check.
Ruthlessly exploits the marketplace for its own gain? Check.
Kidnaps and enslaves sentient beings for its own profit? Check.

What, were you expecting some sort of mass murderer or torturing demon lord? Amateurs. They have no sense of scale.

True evil requires the cooperation of thousands who are "minding their own business and just following orders".

 

[Hereticus]

What do you use as the "ultimate" evil?

The ex-wife has a deity named after her.

 

[jsFALLEN]

The big evil in my last campaign was democracy and government accountablilty. The PC's, unknown to them at first, were hired to find a tablet of an ancient god. Turning it over to their contact, and damsel in distress, the PC's found out that it was only a small peice of a puzzle. There were about 3 other groups looking for these peices of an artifact. What insued was a 4E campaign alla indiana jones movies with lots of awesome locals, social skill encounter and heavy role playing. In what was the big reveal- was that the tablet were blue prints for the first printing press, and it ended up in a guys hands who wanted the feudal government out and the 'peoples will' in. His biggest weapon, mass media via the printing press. So, who the PC's thought were the good guy(s) kinda became the villian(s), or the Pc's could side with the Democracy side. Either way works, it became time for them to choose a side or walk away. Now throw in a few other politcally motivated groups add a dash of nobles andsome flushed out NPC's and chaos will insue. It was my best campaign to date. Who would of thought the idea of a democracy in a feudal kingdom would be the villian?