Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
I like to go the opposite direction. I have found that the best villains are those that would not normally arouse suspicion.
What do you use as the "ultimate" evil?
- Thread starter avin
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I like to go the opposite direction. I have found that the best villains are those that would not normally arouse suspicion.
Well, in my current 3E campaign I'm also going to use Pandorym as a baseline for my BBEG. However I'm going to 'reskin' it as an Avatar of Ilsensine who has slightly different goals...
And that's actually what I'd do in the 4E campaign, too:
Use the stats from one of the 'usual suspects' but change appearance, goals, and followers to make it your own.
Shemeska
Adventurer
As far as pure, base evil goes, the yugoloths. But even while they manipulate the other fiends as best as they're able, they themselves are puppets of their own creators the baernaloths. The baern are more often felt rather than seen, and as far as evil goes, they were the first fiends to inhabit the multiverse, prior to the existance of mortals, and prior to the first gods by a large margin.
Of course, I'll happily hint at larger scale, meta-multiversal structure and the idea that the baern are heralds of something or somethings simply unknowable.
Of course, I'll happily hint at larger scale, meta-multiversal structure and the idea that the baern are heralds of something or somethings simply unknowable.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
One of the cool things about FFZ's "villain design" system is that it reliably creates campaign-ending BBEGs that players will hate for story reasons.
Basically, I have the PC's give me a few motives: what do they want? What are they scared of?
Then I create an NPC who is everything they are scared of, and who exploits every vulnerability to keep them from getting what they want.
For instance, take a party of four: a fighter who wants to be a hero and who is afraid of his own power; a wizard who wants to be powerful because she's afraid of being weak; a thief who wants material wealth because she's afraid of being poor; and a priest who wants to be protected because he's scared of what lies outside.
The villain is a creature from outside, who specializes in draining the power from people, making them worthless and weak before its great onslaught as it amasses might and wealth for itself, who is also seen as a savior, someone everyone loves, because of its great power to destroy things that no one could touch. The villain is a propagandist, an entity building a church to itself, where it can fleece the faithful and challenge the established order. The fighter must be a villain, derided for his own power. The wizard must be weak, unable to hurt the creature with raw ability. The thief must be poor as all the wealth goes into the villain's coffers. The priest must be vulnerable to this thing from abroad, as it holds their fate in its hands.
That's the mortal villain. The hidden villain can be more esoteric and is probably more like a creature formed of the perverted faith of millions, a massive million-eyed ooze of raw destructive power, hidden behind this false savior.
The Power of Archetypes is strong, especially in the villains!
Basically, I have the PC's give me a few motives: what do they want? What are they scared of?
Then I create an NPC who is everything they are scared of, and who exploits every vulnerability to keep them from getting what they want.
For instance, take a party of four: a fighter who wants to be a hero and who is afraid of his own power; a wizard who wants to be powerful because she's afraid of being weak; a thief who wants material wealth because she's afraid of being poor; and a priest who wants to be protected because he's scared of what lies outside.
The villain is a creature from outside, who specializes in draining the power from people, making them worthless and weak before its great onslaught as it amasses might and wealth for itself, who is also seen as a savior, someone everyone loves, because of its great power to destroy things that no one could touch. The villain is a propagandist, an entity building a church to itself, where it can fleece the faithful and challenge the established order. The fighter must be a villain, derided for his own power. The wizard must be weak, unable to hurt the creature with raw ability. The thief must be poor as all the wealth goes into the villain's coffers. The priest must be vulnerable to this thing from abroad, as it holds their fate in its hands.
That's the mortal villain. The hidden villain can be more esoteric and is probably more like a creature formed of the perverted faith of millions, a massive million-eyed ooze of raw destructive power, hidden behind this false savior.
The Power of Archetypes is strong, especially in the villains!
Fallen Seraph
First Post
Hmm... I don't usually have a "ultimate evil". Especially not something that is quantifiable and measurably evil since well that idea doesn't exist in my campaigns.
Most of the time it is simply there is some force either simply naturally or willingly acting out in its own interest that goes against the wishes of the PCs. That force may be viewed as evil, and some that work with them as well, ie; in one setting the Mega-Cabals who wish to work with the new universe swallowing the old could be viewed as evil.
But there is no ultimate evil.
Most of the time it is simply there is some force either simply naturally or willingly acting out in its own interest that goes against the wishes of the PCs. That force may be viewed as evil, and some that work with them as well, ie; in one setting the Mega-Cabals who wish to work with the new universe swallowing the old could be viewed as evil.
But there is no ultimate evil.
Fieari
Explorer
As far as demons go, I prefer Juiblex. In my games, he/it is the one who wishes nothing more than to cause as much suffering as possible to all beings, mortals in particular, while the other demons are more focused on wars in the heavens, and are much less interesting.
But Juiblex isn't the biggest bad in my games... in fact, Juiblex is utilized as a tool by the real evils, who are cosmic beings of entropy.
And yet, while that may be the epic final goal, the evil the players encounter are much smaller, and much nastier, and much more insideous. Evil masquerading as good. Governments falling apart by greed and trechery within. Petty people doing petty things en masse in order to bring everything down. All fed upon by the aforementions supernatural stuff.
It works pretty well. Particularly because my players like roaming far and wide, so it helps to have patterns I can set up on the fly, which the players can tie together on their own, building massive conspiracies of malaise across entire worlds.
But Juiblex isn't the biggest bad in my games... in fact, Juiblex is utilized as a tool by the real evils, who are cosmic beings of entropy.
And yet, while that may be the epic final goal, the evil the players encounter are much smaller, and much nastier, and much more insideous. Evil masquerading as good. Governments falling apart by greed and trechery within. Petty people doing petty things en masse in order to bring everything down. All fed upon by the aforementions supernatural stuff.
It works pretty well. Particularly because my players like roaming far and wide, so it helps to have patterns I can set up on the fly, which the players can tie together on their own, building massive conspiracies of malaise across entire worlds.
Relique du Madde
Adventurer
HAHAHA! PC does that mean you're the ultimate evil of the game you are dming?
Baron Opal
First Post
There's never just one, otherwise evil would win.
The mind flayers are pretty much at the topo of the heap, however. I love my lil' squid-heads.
The mind flayers are pretty much at the topo of the heap, however. I love my lil' squid-heads.
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