What do you want? (Forked Thread: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?)

[The_Gneech]

1. I want better support for big tent D&D. For example, I want the Ki power source to be openly and enthusiastically anime. Those who don't like it can choose not to play Ki characters.

I could get behind this, as long as it was modular enough to use or toss specific parts without leaving any major holes in the game. (Although the "power source" concept and terminology really rubs me the wrong way -- but that's for some other thread.)

-The Gneech

 

[Raven Crowking]

Herriman the Wise gets my vote as well.


RC

 

[LostSoul]

What have you wanted from D&D, that has never seemed to happen yet, or you have had to add to the game to not be missing that part of the fun for you?

I would like some way to mechanically represent characters changing, not just growing in effectiveness.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I would like some way to mechanically represent characters changing, not just growing in effectiveness.

Paragon Paths...

Epic Destinies...

Seriously, I've run a game that progressed from level 10 to level 11. It is a HUGE jump.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Paragon Paths...

Epic Destinies...

Seriously, I've run a game that progressed from level 10 to level 11. It is a HUGE jump.

We have not gotten close to 10th level yet. What types of changes are there?

 

[thecasualoblivion]

We have not gotten close to 10th level yet. What types of changes are there?

At level 11:

You choose a Paragon Path and get 2-3 new class abilties(unless you Paragon Multiclass)
You get a Paragon Path Encounter Power, which makes four total Encounter Powers
Feats that are improved by tier(weapon focus, elemental focuses, toughness) are promoted
You get a Paragon Tier feat, which are significantly more powerful than Heroic feats
You can retrain a Heroic feat to get a second Paragon feat
You get +1 to all six ability scores
Monsters you encounter get a substantial boost
Magic Items you find of 11+ level get a substantial boost

 

[ExploderWizard]

At level 11:

You choose a Paragon Path and get 2-3 new class abilties(unless you Paragon Multiclass)
You get a Paragon Path Encounter Power, which makes four total Encounter Powers
Feats that are improved by tier(weapon focus, elemental focuses, toughness) are promoted
You get a Paragon Tier feat, which are significantly more powerful than Heroic feats
You can retrain a Heroic feat to get a second Paragon feat
You get +1 to all six ability scores
Monsters you encounter get a substantial boost
Magic Items you find of 11+ level get a substantial boost

Ok. Sounds like mucho power ups. I'm still with Lost Soul on this one. How are any of these changes that are not related to effectiveness?

 

[LostSoul]

Ok. Sounds like mucho power ups. I'm still with Lost Soul on this one. How are any of these changes that are not related to effectiveness?

Yeah. I don't mind if they are related to effectiveness, I just don't want them to be all about that.

Let's say I'm playing a nice guy, but stuff happens and I turn into a cold-hearted bastard. How is that reflected on my character sheet?

4e does have some ways to deal with this. I could be playing an Eladrin who turned his back on the Feywild, but later he goes back. I swap a more general Feat for an Eladrin-specific one. Or a Half-Elf who starts taking Human-only Feats.

But in general those are pretty limited ways to reflect character development.

 

[crash_beedo]

Ok. Sounds like mucho power ups. I'm still with Lost Soul on this one. How are any of these changes that are not related to effectiveness?

What do you mean by changes? 3.X was very much the same way (more bigger faster as you leveled).

In older editions - I did like how (in BECMI) Companion level characters took on castles and dominion rulership, Master Level characters went Planar. This is very much in line with 4E's Heroic / Paragon / Epic model and is really a throwback to Frank Mentzer's great work. Characters suffer from 'more bigger faster' but the type of adventures they do changes dramatically in scope (at least, if the DM is up to the task!)

I don't see 4E crossing into Dominion economics any time soon...

But I do miss some of those 9th level rules in 1E - getting some followers or henchman to help build your temple or castle. Quaint but niffty!

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Ok. Sounds like mucho power ups. I'm still with Lost Soul on this one. How are any of these changes that are not related to effectiveness?

What does change is the scope of the setting. At Heroic Tier, its your job to save the village. At Paragon Tier, its your job to save the entire nation, and you'll be facing threats that can an endanger a nation. At Epic Tier, it becomes your job to save the universe.