What do you want? (Forked Thread: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?)

What about monks? Also, how is 'in tune w/the Tao' different from 'magic'? D&D has many different kinds of magic, why not Taoist?

If I may - the functional part isn't the "Tao" vs "magic" thing. It is the "jump 800 feet and hold up your full weight on a leaf" thing. The issue isn't the flavor text, but the scales represented in the mechanics - those have implicatiosn for everyone.

You want a monk who works on the same basic scale as a ranger or a fighter, that's cool. You want a monk who jumps three football fields alongside the same ranger and fighter, then we have a problem. Type mismatch.
 

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Pink haired underage schoolgirl with 8' long weapon (gun, maul, sword, whatever) - this anime archetype simply changes the world in which she is introduced. It says "the physics of this world are Japanese cartoon physics". I'm not bagging on that style of play (I'm also not saying I appreciate it), but it clearly admits no admixture with other forms of fantasy. It's either a cartoon physics world or it's not.
As opposed to a 3e gnome with a 20 str wielding a greatsword? Or for that matter, that there is absolutely no difference between a halfling with 18 str and a half-orc with 18 Str, except in matters of encumberance?

Not to mention that dragons of several tons can fly. Or there are floating monsters that shoot lazer beams out of their eyeballs. Or that you can buy a bag of GLUE and use it as a weapon. Giant man-eating jello cubes. Falling damage that allows a 10th level fighter to laugh at falling off a 100' cliff.
 
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If I may - the functional part isn't the "Tao" vs "magic" thing. It is the "jump 800 feet and hold up your full weight on a leaf" thing. The issue isn't the flavor text, but the scales represented in the mechanics - those have implicatiosn for everyone.

You want a monk who works on the same basic scale as a ranger or a fighter, that's cool. You want a monk who jumps three football fields alongside the same ranger and fighter, then we have a problem. Type mismatch.
What you're describing is a power balance problem, not a flavor problem. If this is the only objection, its easily fixed. As anime influenced characters are added to D&D, calibrate them based on existing rules for power balance. For example, the monk who jumps three football fields now instead jumps a distance calibrated upon the Jump spell. Far enough that he's clearly special, but also within the accepted level of the game.
That's not a better analogy. Role playing games are not Agricola (a euro board game about farming) where each player has his own little board and can be in his own little world and actually play the game with four other people and never even talk to them. Some games are like that but not role playing games. In role playing games, it's a group game. We're all sharing the same bowl of salsa, so it matters what you put in it.
But we're not sharing to the same extent. I'm sorry, but you simply do not have as much of an interest in my character as I do. That's why its my character, and not yours.
Li Mu Bai from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon - he's so in harmony with the Tao that he can effortlessly jump 800' and support his weight upon a single leaf. If that's possible in the game world then it changes the game world. It's not self-contained. Either it's a Wuxia game world or it isn't. There's no such thing as "half Wuxia". It either is or it isn't.
You're kind of driving the bus off the bridge here. Power balance issues need to be set aside. When we discuss whether its ok for D&D to add anime tropes to certain character classes, I think it goes without saying that we're assuming that its done so in a balanced way. Jumping 800 feet is unbalanced, and is objectionable for reasons entirely unrelated to the anime genre.
That kid from FLCL - a boy who grows a giant phallus out of his forehead that ejaculates out giant battle robots. Sorry but no, you can't play that character. That kind of thing doesn't happen in this game world. If I have to explain it further, there's probably no point in trying to explain it further.
And again, the sound you hear is the Korgoth bus crashing into the gorge. Just as we need to set aside power balance issues, we should probably set aside what I'll call "total genre" issues. If we're talking about adding anime influences to D&D, I think it also goes without saying that the influences in question will relate to fantasy, not science fiction, anime.

Or else the next thing we'll be debating is whether D&D should become a teen relationship drama set in a japanese high school. Obviously no.
Pink haired underage schoolgirl with 8' long weapon (gun, maul, sword, whatever) - this anime archetype simply changes the world in which she is introduced. It says "the physics of this world are Japanese cartoon physics". I'm not bagging on that style of play (I'm also not saying I appreciate it), but it clearly admits no admixture with other forms of fantasy. It's either a cartoon physics world or it's not.
KABOOM! Bus explodes as it hits the bottom! Pink haired underage schoolgirl? We're doing another genre disconnect now.

If anime is to be added to D&D, its going to be done in a way that involves taking the tropes that undergird combat heavy fantasy anime, and adapt them to the default world-type of a magical pseudo medieval age. Its not going to involve taking modern school girl from Osaka Japan, iPod and all, and dumping her straight into the middle ages.

The "little girl with big weapon" trope, as its generally used in fantasy or medieval anime, tends to involve a girl who fights with a regular sized katana, and moves very fast. In 3e D&D terms the most likely way to adapt this would just be someone who can use a katana and weapon finesse at the same time. In 4e terms, its a katana variant that counts as a light weapon, and the girl is a rogue.
On the other hand:

Kiki from Kiki's Delivery Service - OK, a kid witch that flies around on a broom and has a telepathic cat. That could work, if the game was light enough.
Woah! In a surprise twist, the bus UNEXPLODES, and flies back up onto the bridge!
Cloud from FF7 - Can we turn the "buster sword" into something non-ludicrous (like a zweihander) and de-spike the hairdo? And not jump 50' in the air? If so then we have a young but embittered warrior who used to work for an evil overlord and now wishes to return to his oppressed home town and stay out of politics... but naturally he ends up having to choose to fight for the good guys. That's fine - he's still a young swordsman with a big sword and thirst for vengeance or whatnot. Works.
Also entirely reasonable! We're back on track!

Ok, ground rules.

1. Bracket power balance issues. If we're going to discuss a D&D class influenced by Lu Bai, lets assume that its influenced by him in flavor and in abilities, but that the power level of those abilities are calibrated to match the expected strength versus character level of the D&D power curve. That's the only fair way to do things, since it lets us focus on flavor rather than on externalities that don't actually have to be a problem.

2. Focus on fantasy anime. Lets put the cyborg/ motorcyclist/ transformer/ professional hacker thing down, and deal with things that actual people actually want to include in actual D&D, and things that have a snowball's chance in heck of actually being considered. Its only fair.

So, Lu Bai. Jumping 800 feet and balancing on a leaf? Probably not acceptable for obvious balance reasons. What about getting a level appropriate bonus on Athletics checks related to jumping, and a bonus to the Acrobatics skill when balancing? Does it honestly matter to your enjoyment of the game if these bonuses are attributed to "ki energy" instead of "multiclassing to Wizard to learn Jump and then buying boots that help me balance?"

So, ignore total genre disconnects like cybernetic superhackers in the middle ages, and ignore issues that are really just disguised power balance concerns.

The sorts of things you're actually likely to see would be, in a partial list off the top of my head:

1. A lessening of the need for armor. A front line anime styled warrior is either going to be a fully armored samurai, or he's going to be lightly armored and doge well.

2. A focus on dramatic recoveries. Its a standard trope of anime that a character on the brink of feat regains his determination and continues to fight. This is easily enough done. 4e already has Second Wind to build upon.

3. The ability to refocus during pauses in combat, thereby gaining tactical advantage. For example, a character might decline to attack for a round, and gain an advantage in the next round.

4. Enhanced mobility for most characters. All that really requires is Acrobatics and/or Athletics as class skills for anime styled classes, but it could go further. For example, a Cloud influenced character might get a limited use ability to jump further than normal (but within the general power balance of D&D).

5. At least one class that focuses on unarmed combat.

6. Eastern weapons.

7. At least one class that mixes unarmed melee combat with magic attacks. Imagine, perhaps, a Strike version of the Swordmage, themed to use Ki instead of magic, and adhering to some of the above tropes.

There's probably more. Can anyone think of any? Remember, an entirely new class isn't strictly necessary if there's a class that already does it. For example, Sailor Moon is just a 3e Warlock with some reskinning. (She flies, wields a rod, and blasts people with magical energies... get that girl a familiar and you've got yourself Sailor Moon, D&D). A Genasi can cover you for your "dude who fights in melee but also has elemental powers" trope. Etc.
 

Why is it that we can't have a very Anime, Ki-force stuff in a book? "The stuff is over there in that book. That's where it lives. It doesn't come into my game." You know, like how psionics are? (Yeah, I'm aware of the ridicule that goes on and hwo people are vehemently against psionics in D&D, but no one is forcing them to play it any more than they are anime-inspired things).

Not to mention that various aspects of the Anime, ki-focused stuff equally jives with various western fantasy stuff.

1. A lessening of the need for armor. A front line anime styled warrior is either going to be a fully armored samurai, or he's going to be lightly armored and doge well.
Like a fencer/swashbuckler, which is also a western trope.

5. At least one class that focuses on unarmed combat.
I also would like to point out that there are western tropes/fantasy styles that also fit into this. Hello, Hercules? Beowulf's fight with Grendel?

2. Focus on fantasy anime. Lets put the cyborg/ motorcyclist/ transformer/ professional hacker thing down, and deal with things that actual people actually want to include in actual D&D, and things that have a snowball's chance in heck of actually being considered. Its only fair.

So, ignore total genre disconnects like cybernetic superhackers in the middle ages, and ignore issues that are really just disguised power balance concerns.
Okay, I'm going to take some flack here, but I would argue that the whole Cyberpunk business can be done with good ol' 3e. Take a gander at Eberron.

Robots? Check. Soulless corporations trying to sieze power? Check. Metropolises? Check. Implants able to be installed into individuals (Grafts, by any other name)? Check.

And I dare say that Eberron didn't destroy D&D as we know it.
 

What about monks?
I've never been a fan of monks (as in I don't like asian with my medieval). I could tolerate a somewhat-similar class but titled a "brother" I suppose, just without calling things ki, or going anywhere near anime. Things are based on extreme skill for the class rather than some psuedo-magic. Leave magic for the arcane, and divinity for the divine.

For those that want kimchi on the side, please order it separately and to be honest I don't want to smell it at my table (or near my table - I really don't like the smell of kimchi :-S). Anime physics destroys my suspension of disbelief, forces it to move where I don't like it going. YMMV and blessed be the case, there should be room for all of us, just not in the same restaurant.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

For the most part, why would you expect to see this reflected in your cha4racter sheet? In 4e, especially, without a strong alignment system, changes in outlook and personality should not be expected to have much impact on the stats.

I mean, if you become a cold-hearted bastard, that doesn't change what you know how to do. Being a meanie doesn't mean you suddenly swing a sword differently, or something.

I would like to see it on the character sheet because I would like it to have some kind of influence mechanically on the game through the game's currency.

Something like a power: Cold-Hearted Bastard that gives me a +5 bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks when I harshly dismiss someone else's concerns.

That power exists alongside Empathic Understanding, which gives me a +5 bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy when I show genuine concern for someone else.

When I "retrain" one power for another, my character is changing through conflict - what Robin Laws calls drama. If I have them both, my character is conflicted, a source of dramatic tension in the game.
 


I would like to see it on the character sheet because I would like it to have some kind of influence mechanically on the game through the game's currency.

Something like a power: Cold-Hearted Bastard that gives me a +5 bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks when I harshly dismiss someone else's concerns.

That power exists alongside Empathic Understanding, which gives me a +5 bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy when I show genuine concern for someone else.

When I "retrain" one power for another, my character is changing through conflict - what Robin Laws calls drama. If I have them both, my character is conflicted, a source of dramatic tension in the game.

Thats a rather involved concept for D&D. I think GURPS could handle such things much better as advantages/disadvantages gained in play.
 


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