What Do Your Fantasy Societies in D&D Get For Their Taxes and Tithes?

[Chrisling]

Re: Re: Origins of magic and such

Hmm. Well, if those wizards didn't have access to damaging spells, the potential is seriously reduced. Remember that wizards needs spellbooks or scrolls, or lots of research. It's easy to imagine spellbooks being strictly rationed, with certain spells being available only to the most trusted or via the black market.

Sorcerers, on the other hand...

I totally agree, which is why I said the potential exists. With wizards, furthermore, limitations to spell access directly limits the power of the wizard. What good is a wizard without spells, after all?

In my game where the Undying Emperor controlled magic strictly, he handled it through a carrot-and-stick method -- brutal punishment for non-sanctioned use of magic, but richly rewarded wizards and sorcerers who followed his orders. Other games might handle it different ways, or have their world *mishandle* it.

I was just throwing out that it COULD be dangerous to keep wizards down as, when the revolution came, they could be really disgruntled and do a lot of damage.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Wizard Gaps and Brain Drains

I always thought the magical research/tech level question had interesting ramifications.

I mean if one kingdom/nation/cultural group could get it together enough to really create golden age or permanent and powerful magical elite they could rocket ahead of competing nations magic wise and than that gap would only reinforce itself.

Particularly if that nation was a little agressive in recruiting magic-users to come and learn from and work for them.

Plus there is the horrible idea of a wish gap between competing nations or the possibility of all of the more enlightened wizards or wizarding natios gathering together and regulating the spell for the good of the world.

Might explain all those perverted wishes.

Heck there could even be efforts to limit or regulate the use of wizards in war. Rules of warfare are a very medieval concept.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Florence 3E

The interesting discussion would be stuff like, "What is Cesare Borgia? Della Rovere? Ludivico Sforza?"

Sforza: fighter with a few levels of bard in core book terms or he has a combination of fighter, noble, and whatever prestige class his condottieri endorsed out of Swashbuckling Adventures.

Borgia: high CHA rogue with a few levels of noble and some sinister Assassin prc.

Della Rovere?

Savanarola: Inquisitor, inquisitor, inquisitor, and one or two levels of that non-magic using priest class everyone wants to develop.

now, this is with a low magic setting. A high magic Italian renaissance would probably feature all of them gaining several levels in either wizard or sorceror in addition to all of this.

If we can use Swashbuckling Adventures than I will allow that that settings or Rokugan's Courtier class is just about right, BUT Niccolo did have some combat experience and would have been fascinated by the idea of talking to the long-dead.

 

[Chrisling]

Guiliano della Rovere was also known as Pope Julius II.

Machiavelli's experience with war was all textbook, too. I can't seem to recall a place or time when he actually lead troops in battle, or was himself in battle -- he did a fair bit of observation, tho'. I'm sticking with Courtier . . . tho' if magic was available, he certain could have been a wizard, too. He was certainly brilliant enough for it.

With Cesare Borgia, I think I'd stick to a pretty fair distribution of fighter (and then duellist) and courtier levels -- bearing in mind, too, he certainly employed rogues and assassins (Micholotto leaps to mind). I don't think he would have studied magic, even if it was available; he rejected a church career specifically to be a warrior. Study bored him.

Dr. Strangemonkey definitely hit Ludivico Sforza on the head. I have trouble seeing him as being personally interested in magic, too. He didn't have the temper for it.

Thinking about it . . . one of the cultural ramifications of magic could be heavy involvement in it by women. I hope this doesn't start a flame war, but it's possible to see a society with the men being warriors and the women being wizards as being quite effective -- being a far better use of human resources than actually happened in places like the Renaissance. It could even be a fun game to run, since Renaissance Italy is so incredible interesting anyway.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Vodacce

Swashbuckling Adventures developed a Renaissance version of Italy that works exactly along the lines you are describing.

The men are all courtiers/duelists and the noble women are all sorcerors who are deliberately kept illiterate so they won't take over the society.

When upper-class men need thinking companionship they visit with a class of highly-educated non-noble non-magical courtesans.

Their version of a sorceror is a little low powered, or should I say weirdly powered, but it is much as you describe.

Great minds....

Machiavelli created a regiment of Florentine militia while he still occupied political office, thus the levels of fighter. I suppose you could give him ranks in profession: commander or profession: strategist and that would work just as well.

Ah Julius II, one of my favorite Popes, hmmm....

A lot like Sforza, replace noble with that non-magical cleric?

I don't think I could argue that he was a single classed Paladin, but I'd like to.

With high levels of diplomacy. That man could cobble together an alliance.

 

[Chrisling]

I'm not sure how I feel being compared to John Wick. ;p

Dr. Strangemonkey, well, I admit to having a lot of trouble imagining JULIUS II as being a paladin. He was way, way, way too ruthless in the sense of perpetrating murders and such, such as in Milan.

I don't know if I want to get into the conversation if Julius, a definitely morally sketchy guy, could make it as a cleric in the Catholic Church, hehe. Giving the alignment of the Christian god, and attempting to define the alignment of the Catholic Church is definite flame-bait and I edge close to that, already.

Tho' I did bring it up . . . .

IMO, Julius would have been a fighter-rogue. A pretty good one, too. No one knew he was a fighter until he started conquering them left and right. ;p

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

No problemo

Actually, Chrisling, it's good to stretch these mental muscles again. Hope your girlfriend does well with the physics.

Swashbuckling Adventures has a villain named Cardinal Verdugo in one of their supplements, and they include advice for using him in another campaign.

An important point of this advice is that Verdugo must be a very evil man who sincerely and faithfully believes that he is doing the right thing for a good gawd. He must belong to and be a cleric of that good gawds church.

I am very, I won't say comfortable, accepting of the fact that evil men can have high positions in good institutions and perpetrate evil acts on those institutions behalf. I am also accepting of the fact that these evil men can often perform good works and that good men in those same positions can not only perform evil works but also do an evil job.

So, to the point, I'm cool with Julius being a cleric, and I am sad that I can't say he was a paladin.

I don't know about rogue, I know he needs the skill points, but I just can't picture him actually backstabbing anyone. This is why we need a non-magic cleric with plenty o' skill points and none of the miracles.