D&D 5E What does 5E do well?

[TwoSix]

No, it's the lack of an exploration gameplay loop (I'm not counting the entirely optional school interludes, much ad I love them, they are entirely skiable to the core game). Tactical grid combat obviously doesn't mean a game isn't an RPG, but when the grid combats are the game, with everything else being an elaboration of building the army for the preset wargame scenarios...that's a wargame. This is way more clear with earlier entries in the series, that usually lacked many of the roleplaying side game elements in Three Houses.

I don't see exploration gameplay as being necessary to define an RPG, so that's probably where we are differing.

 

[Parmandur]

Honestly, at least half the gameplay loop is finding your favorite character's lost items and having tea parties so they can become your waifu at the end of the game.

I would disagree with the notion that having a grid and turn-based combat system suddenly makes a RPG into a not-RPG. You're really only controlling 10-11 characters at a time, not armies. (Although I suppose the gambit system pushes against that a bit.)

And also to add, I put an absurd number of hours into Three Houses, and I love it. It was my first Fire Emblrm (not counting Fire Emblem Warriors, which is also not an RPG for similar reasons), so the nature of the core wargame wasn't super clear to me, though it felt weird for an "RPG," until I played older entries that were straight wargames.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't see exploration gameplay as being necessary to define an RPG, so that's probably where we are differing.

In the context of a computer simulation, defining how an "RPG" is a "role-playing game" is odd. Whe I play Super Mario Broa., I am playing a role in a game, and even if I play a definite consensus RPG like Mass Effect or Skyrim, I am not inhabiting a role the same way as with a TTRPG. This is increased on the case of Fire Emblem, since a wargame with character plot elements is literally how D&D started. I'll point again to Zelda as the mirror example, since most people comfortably don't consider it an RPG, but it participates in RPG gameplay about as much as Fire Emblem, but from the opposite direction.

 

[Oofta]

If being a CRPG means that your decisions actually have an impact on the game play and the results you get I'm not sure Mass Effect qualifies unless you really have a favorite color.

 

[Neonchameleon]

You could shoot the Starchild...

 

[Oofta]

You could shoot the Starchild...

Not in the version I played since I played the original version. Oh, and Han shot first!

 

[Neonchameleon]

Not in the version I played since I played the original version. Oh, and Han shot first!

Han shot first - but the original unpatched Mass Effect ending was a beta. And needing both a patch and two pieces of DLC (From the Ashes as day 1 DLC being especially skeevy) for the plot to work was just bad.

 

[Oofta]

Han shot first - but the original unpatched Mass Effect ending was a beta. And needing both a patch and two pieces of DLC (From the Ashes as day 1 DLC being especially skeevy) for the plot to work was just bad.

Did you mean to say the original ending was "bad" instead of "beta"?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Did you mean to say the original ending was "bad" instead of "beta"?

I meant a beta in the software sense; it was a draft that was just about functional but they clearly hadn't actually finished writing it and what was there was what should have been a placeholder because they rushed the game out in a year and a half. Six more months and that could and should have been on the greatest games of all time list but they didn't get that.

 

[Xeviat]

All this "4E fights took forever" talk is strange to me, because fights in D&D have always taken a long time for my group, especially at higher levels. Spells, tactics, multiple monsters, maps. We rarely have "easy" or "medium" fights because we like the challenge of the harder fights.

The last boss fight we did in my 5E game took 12 rounds, and two of the enemies got away. There were 3 leveled NPCs and 2 hill giants, and the party of 5 had 9 NPCs on their side helping. Big climax of a city siege.

The dragon fight earlier took 6 rounds, and the cleric's turn often takes a while (the warlock is faster), and the fighter can even take a bit if he's using his superiority dice that round.