What does a campaign setting "need"?

[Nellisir]

What everyone else said. ;-)

Plus, Vlos has a good point. A good setting has History - a sense that something came before the characters.

Verisimilitude.

As a player, I find maps to be very helpful. They help players get a grasp on the scope and scale of their endeavours. That said, the maps should be appropriate. 1st level characters don't need continent-spanning maps. Making a map with 4 continents and 7 seas, and then pointing to a point and saying "you are here" makes them want to cross the ocean, not just the next stream.

As a DM, I use new character races to help define the tone of a new setting. I generally discard two or three PH races, and add the same number back in. Players are welcome to stick with "old reliable elves" if they like, or try out jotunkin and troldfolk (in my last 2 multi-year campaigns, I've had 0 half-elves, 0 gnomes, 0 dwarves, 2 troldfolk, 1 roane, and 1 fuah).

Players only ever see 10% (at most) of what you create. Subtle campaign details are usually lost (you can emphasize subtle details, but then they aren't so subtle). That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist, but don't expect everyone to appreciate, acknowledge, or understand them.

Nell.

 

[barsoomcore]

Hot Hafling chicks

Stop that. Bad Nebin.

 

[barsoomcore]

Keep in mind that what's good for some campaigns is not necessary for all. Subtle, detailed, versimilitudinous settings are great and I personally love them to bits, but there's a place for broad, quickly sketched, primary-coloured campaigns, too.

 

[shady]

My view, you need:
- interesting places
- interesting people
- plenty of history and some that's still happening

I recently started rereading Conan (off the back of "the Coming of Conan" reprint) and one thing that struck me is the amazing amount of backstory that Howard very rapidly built up - countries, cultures, cities, etc. - and to which he repeatedly refers in the stories. Bear in mind that there isn't much cosmology, there isn't that much magic being thrown around and almost everyone you "normally" meet is human. What he did have is a strong view of the geography (not so much having realistic mountain ranges, as the political, racial and cultural geography), and a strong view of the sweep of history.

A good resource for building is the AD&D 2e World Builder's Guidebook, if you can find it. It's weak in a few areas (politics and culture) but good on the background geography, economics, races (if anyone has an updated version of Table 19: races, please post!) and generating history and cosmology. These last two can really set you off, generate the history for 7 or so kingdoms and see how they interact ...

 

[thalder]

I think coming up with a few neat cultures can help quickly flesh out a setting. Our current game is in my best friends world. There are lots of very interesting cultures, and a general Native American-esque pantheon/religion. but mostly a more significant sense of consequence. One thing we've both done before in our campaign worlds it to allow players to create their own culture to have their character hail form, or one just for nifty flavor. Then the player have more of an investment, and immersion in the setting. Granted those suggestions are still subject to DM discretion, you don't want the idea to ruin the or counter the atmosphere of the setting if the idea is outlandish. Generally find out what the players like and cater it to their play styles. Biggest of all is to have fun with it.

 

[Orius]

I agree with most of this argument, Except this statement. You should know a few names of places outside the starting area. Especially of large famous cities or trading empires. You don't need a full set of details, yet.

I think it depends on the campaign. If you're just starting out with some basic dungeon crawls, then you probably don't need to dwell too much on what's outside the main campaign area.

If you're starting what will become a larger campaign, then having some idea of what the main local kingdoms and important cities are can be helpful, but you don't need to detail them until you need them. It's also good to decide who the main bad guys are going to be at this stage as well.

 

[Hjorimir]

I think you need to decide if the world is going to be campaign specific or if it will serve as a backdrop to many campaigns. I design flaw I've often seen (and committed myself) is designing a world with a specific story in mind. While it seems strong at first (and why shouldn't it if its entire creation justifies a particular plot) it comes up short in the end. A strong world is bigger than any one story or plot.

 

[random user]

I design flaw I've often seen (and committed myself) is designing a world with a specific story in mind. While it seems strong at first (and why shouldn't it if its entire creation justifies a particular plot) it comes up short in the end. A strong world is bigger than any one story or plot.

I think I know what you mean by this, but in case I don't, could you elaborate on this?

 

[Connorsrpg]

My view, you need:
- interesting places
- interesting people
- plenty of history and some that's still happening

I recently started rereading Conan (off the back of "the Coming of Conan" reprint) and one thing that struck me is the amazing amount of backstory that Howard very rapidly built up - countries, cultures, cities, etc. - and to which he repeatedly refers in the stories. Bear in mind that there isn't much cosmology, there isn't that much magic being thrown around and almost everyone you "normally" meet is human. What he did have is a strong view of the geography (not so much having realistic mountain ranges, as the political, racial and cultural geography), and a strong view of the sweep of history.

A good resource for building is the AD&D 2e World Builder's Guidebook, if you can find it. It's weak in a few areas (politics and culture) but good on the background geography, economics, races (if anyone has an updated version of Table 19: races, please post!) and generating history and cosmology. These last two can really set you off, generate the history for 7 or so kingdoms and see how they interact ...

I couldn't agree more with Shady (and many others here). The 2E World Builders Guide was a gem - I just love randomness and then finding a way to mesh it all together. I mean the eg campaign they build as they go is great. I have used this OFTEN. As far as having alternative tables for the Race chart..well I don't, but what I always have is a list of all intelligent/cultured creatures that are found on a particular continent with the race that they substitute for on the table. One day, one day, I will get around to actually rewriting those tables in full

Interesting places and people are essential for a good adventure, but well developed cultures and history for these to appear in make a good campaign. It really doesn't take much to develop a few cultural concepts to distinguish one region from another. A few random historical events can also add to this..helps lead into recent history and then rumours for the beginning of the campaign.

2E World Builders has ideas for this too, as does the article by Ray Winniger from a Dragon mag that presents rules for Realm Turns. In fact I use a modified and expanded version of these to help develop recent happenings. (Once I even had the players plat their realm/homeland through a year of realm turns - then when we began with their characters at least they had an idea of major events, such as who was at war with who, and even a whim to go and see the 'new' giant statue of Moradin on his throne carved into a mountainside in the nearby dales).

Further, all of Ray Winniger's old Dungeoncraft articles are exceptional for any DM wishing to begin a campaign. Especially if starting with a local area and expanding out. His tips on secrets, NPCs, a starting place etc are great and it was good to see at least one other poster quoting one of his rules. I am unable to find a place where these are stored on the net. If anyone else finds them, could they please post that here, I am sure it would be welcome.

I have been working a lot on giving culture to areas. I have submitted a few ideas to dragon that got rejected for being to DM influenced in this regard (inc Tables for how to give a town personality & culture) but was pleased when they accepted one on having players immerse themselves in their character's culture. As a DM I would love to see more players do this and this article (when it sees print) may help others who spend time planning all of this, but player's often skip over to get to the adventure...who could blame them really...which takes us back to that DUngeoncraft rule.."Only create as much as you need to"...though hopefully the arcticle will help some DMs work with players on this...

Sorry, sounding like an add now. I really like this thread. I spend way too much time creating the big picture and not enough on the small adventure at hand

All that has been said is quite helpful as myself and two friends are currently combining our three campaigns into one (of which each has worked on for around 10-15 yrs each). thanks for all the ideas and great thread.

Connors

 

[shady]

Ah, random generation systems. If you like random generation I may go back to plugging traveller again ...

Actually the Megatraveller World Builders Handbook has rules for generating local customs, which I've applied without problems to fantasy settings. But that's a hard book to come by these days.

Other books -
- AEG's Toolbox ... but it isn't "systemic" ... ie one die roll doesn't feed another, and it sticks far too much to lists of 20 things ... needs a lot of thought before another addition.
- Gamemaster Law for Rolemaster - not too much Rolemaster specific stuff, and anyway Rolemaster seems to me to be a very heavy influence on 3E. But it's a shadow of 2E WBG.
- Various Dragon articles - eg there was an article on guilds a while back, if you want a good system around that I don't think you'll find it anywhere else.
- A Magical Medieval Society - looks useful on the surface but the deeper you go it's more like reading a very long copy of Dragon.

Another thing I use 2E WBG for is town generation, it has a great set of tables to work out what set of trades you can find in a particular town, or part of town. I take that and feed it into the roleplayingmaster software and I have a town's population - Alaric the cheesemaker? A short guy with brown hair, gray eyes and a sneaky look? Won't shut up about politics? In love with the daughter of Sendel the carter? That's the guy! (actually to get to this point does take a little license).

There's no decent system still for generating towns and cities, that's the closest; there's a decent "zoning" fragment in the web supplement for 3.5E DMG (and which should have been in the book). Cityworks from FF can help you map it (but overall the book is a massive letdown, after Dungeoncraft). Various FR supplements have systems for, say, this is a 3 storey building etc. But if you want to think about major landmarks, or architectural styles, you're on your own.

We should petition Richard Baker (the original author) to provide an update for 2E WBG.