D&D General What does "magic" mean? [Read carefully, you can't change your vote]

[Fenris-77]

It would certainly make beholders god beings. The main eye can stop dragon fire, dragon flight, giants, the tarrasque and more.

And what happens if two beholders look at each other?

Aside from the fact that they'd have to roll around like dung beetles because they can't float, sure. I, for one, welcome our new Dung Beetle overlords.

 

[Leatherhead]

In the context of D&D:

Magic is the "physics" of the D&D world.

This means rocks, trees, and even Fighters have an inherent "magicalness" too them.

This also means things that aren't magical are from outside the D&D world. which still kind of fits with psionics, as that supposedly comes from the Far Realm, a sort of "I reject your reality and replace it with this one" angle.

But the important part of this question isn't the question itself. It's the fact that this question is only really relevant given the concept of antimagic.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Aside from the fact that they'd have to roll around like dung beetles because they can't float, sure. I, for one, welcome our new Dung Beetle overlords.

someone should make giant arbitration dung beetles who eat beholders.

 

[Hussar]

Blargh. The phrase you're looking for is suspension of disbelief. Or something. However, that said, I'm just going to assume you're joking when you say that anything outside real-world physics must be magic which must therefor must be subject to a specifically D&D anti-magic field or something (because that was the contention I was replying to). I'm doing you a favor there, because that's arrant nonsense. Oh no, pegasi fall to earth and giants can't walk. Please. Not that you couldn't do that in your own game, go nuts, but lets not try to make an 'argument' about it (because there's no argument there).

I used narrativium up above to mean the same thing.

But, my other point stands I think. Magic has multiple meanings and it depends on what the person is talking about.

You seem to take magic to mean the specifically spells and nothing else since spells are pretty much the only thing affected by an anti-magic field. Which is certainly one definition of magic, but, I'd argue hardly the only one.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't think most people(can't see who you are responding to) think that they are the same or close to the same. I think they just see undead and such as a different type of magic, like the 5e Sage Advice talks about.

Personally, I'm like you. I don't see them as close to the same and while they are supernatural, they are not magic to me. If someone asks me if undead or giants are magic, I'm going to tell them no. There are supernatural powers, though. So while the undead might not be magic, that draining cloud it has created around you through it's innate power probably is.

To me, one of the things that separates the magic and not-magic supernatural elements of a D&D style fantasy is the background order.

The background laws. An overdiety. A god of magic or undeath or giants. A weave or force.

But things outside of the order. Those supernatural elements aren't magic. There's not god of psionics, ki, or guns. Monsters and races who invaded from another dimension. They aren't magic nor is the stuff they do.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Whether a thing is suppressed by antimagic field spell* is a pretty concrete rules question, and if you want to define magic that way you can. But I think "what effects does antimagic field suppress" is rather different question than "what you generally understand by word 'magic' in context of D&D?"


(* BTW, RAW the spell causes a paradox, as by the rules it would suppress itself!)

 

[Hussar]

To me, one of the things that separates the magic and not-magic supernatural elements of a D&D style fantasy is the background order.

The background laws. An overdiety. A god of magic or undeath or giants. A weave or force.

But things outside of the order. Those supernatural elements aren't magic. There's not god of psionics, ki, or guns. Monsters and races who invaded from another dimension. They aren't magic nor is the stuff they do.

See, to me, psionics is magic with a funny set of glasses. It's the SF equivalent. It's what SF writers use when they want to give magic powers to characters, but, can't call it magic, because it's SF. Saying that a demon isn't magical seems rather strange to me. Same with most of the extra-planar stuff considering the primary way any of those extra-planar beings can show up in a D&D world is through a magically created portal or summoning.

All the things you listed are just magic by any other name.

 

[Minigiant]

See, to me, psionics is magic with a funny set of glasses. It's the SF equivalent. It's what SF writers use when they want to give magic powers to characters, but, can't call it magic, because it's SF. Saying that a demon isn't magical seems rather strange to me. Same with most of the extra-planar stuff considering the primary way any of those extra-planar beings can show up in a D&D world is through a magically created portal or summoning.

All the things you listed are just magic by any other name.

But SF usually only uses one source of supernatural.

It's really only fantasy that does multiple forms of supernatural.

So saying the aliens who invade Midgard from planet Crogag are using magic because of SF comes off as backwards thought.

 

[Voadam]

Gut reaction:

Batman is not really possible in real world, the swinging by grappling guns he regularly does in the animated series and comics does not really work, but he is not magic. The closest would be calling it movie magic, which is specifically different from calling it magic in a wizard type context.

The Flash is superpowered, but that is different from Zatana and John Constantine who do magic in a superhero world.

I do not consider Neuromancer and cyberpunk magic. I consider Shadowrun essentially cyberpunk plus magic.

Captain America is not magical in the supernatural sense.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In the context of D&D:

Magic is the "physics" of the D&D world.

Yep. In our Real World, we have atoms and molecules, matter and energy. How they all interact together gives us what is real and denotes our study of them in our sciences.

But in D&D (or any fantasy world for that matter) we cannot and should not take it as fact that they also have "atoms and molecules, matter and energy" as we define them by our physics. In D&D, it specifically says it has 'The Weave" (aka "magic") which gives them their own entire different sense of what is natural and what is supernatural. And what our physics tells us can and can't happen does not play into those realms.

The square/cube law? Apparently doesn't exist in D&D because we get giant things all over the place without issue. Dead things can rise up and move their muscles and walk and talk. Entirely different species can mate and produce offspring, as DNA and RNA either don't exist or have no problems going across species.

All these things that can't happen in our world (and thus would be considered "magical"), happen in fantasy worlds as a matter of normal course and shouldn't be.