What Empowered value gets multiplied?

[Hypersmurf]

Ray of enfeeblement includes a clause that prevents it from dropping a character below 1 strength, so it can't paralyze them.

As worded, in fact, it prevents the subject's Strength dropping below 1.

Surrounded by an army of Shadows? Cast RoE on yourself... they can only kill you if your Str drops below 1, and as long as RoE is operating on you, as worded, that can't happen...

-Hyp.

 

[Scharlata]

[...] your Str drops below 1, and as long as RoE is operating on you, as worded, that can't happen...

Hi!

Hyp? Isn't your assumption a very construed one? The spell does not hinder the victim to lose more Str points from other sources, such as poison or other factors that common sense require....

I woudn't allow such a "feeble" (pardon the pun) argumentation.

Kind regards

 

[Hypersmurf]

The spell does not hinder the victim to lose more Str points from other sources, such as poison or other factors that common sense require....

"The subject's Strength score cannot drop below 1."

I'm the subject? My Strength score cannot drop below 1. It's fairly unambiguous.

I suspect it's not intentional... but it's what it says!

-Hyp.

 

[MichaelH]

Yeah, shocking grasp and produce flame are two other excellent candidates, since much of their damage at high caster levels comes from their constant terms. Similar benefit for ray of enfeeblement.

As I recall, anyway.

I agree, except for Shocking Grasp. This spell was modified in 3.5 to do 1d6 electricity damage per caster level (max 5d6).

 

[Scharlata]

I suspect it's not intentional... but it's what it says!

Hyp? You do mean it, don't you? You give this little sentence a higher regard as the machanics of i.e. poison? Oh, my!

Kind regards

 

[Caliban]

Hi!

Hyp? Isn't your assumption a very construed one? The spell does not hinder the victim to lose more Str points from other sources, such as poison or other factors that common sense require....

I woudn't allow such a "feeble" (pardon the pun) argumentation.

Kind regards

Hypersmurf doesn't like to consider "intent" or "common sense" issues when discussing rules on this board. Just what the text actually says, no matter how poorly structured that text may be.

Ask him about what constitutes an ally for the bless spell sometime.

It's hard to tell if he's serious about it, or has just hasn't realized that the joke has been run into the ground.

 

[ThirdWizard]

BTW:

Lets say our Clr 5 has the Augment Healing feat (or whatever it's called) from Complete Divine.

Does his Empowered Cure Light Wounds now do:
(1d8 + 5 + 2) * 1.5

or is the feat added after the empowerment?

I'm not familiar with feats from Complete Divine, however, I'm fairly certain that all Metamagic feats are handled separately. In other words, an Empowered and Maximized Fireball cast by a 20th level caster would deal:

60+5d6 damage

60 for the Maximized aspect (10*6) plus the Empowered aspect (5d6 extra).

 

[rkanodia]

Curses, rkanodia. Curses.

Daniel
who guesses his new character will have to content herself with screwing over fighters instead.

A character exceeding their heavy load can only move 5' per round (as a full-round action) and loses their Dex bonus to AC. So a wizard would not be rendered entirely helpless but would certainly be rather exposed - no five-foot-step-and-cast, and rogues will go to town on him.

Note that the rules don't say what happens when you suddenly find that you are forced to try to carry more than twice your heavy load. It follows logically from the statement "A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground" that a character can't lift more than double his or her maximum load off the ground. And if you even think, Hypersmurf, about saying "It only says what you can do, without explicitly stating that you can't do anything more" I swear that I will have an Iconic Breakdown.

I would probably rule that a character carrying more than twice his heavy load (i.e. 21+ pounds for a character with 1 strength, and not altogether implausible for a wizard to be carrying) finds themselves prone (since they can't lift the items 'off the ground', and the items are on their person, so they had better be on the ground too) and unable to move any distance. Casting spells with somatic components becomes impossible for him or her. The character may be able to relieve themselves of some burdens by dropping items held in the hand, or shrugging off packs and bags.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You give this little sentence a higher regard as the machanics of i.e. poison?

Not at all.

I give them the same regard.

The subject of a Ray of Enfeeblement is on 5 Str, and takes 8 Str damage from poison.

There are three rules to take into account.

1. The poison deals 8 Str damage.
2. An ability score cannot have a value less than 0.
3. The subject's Str score cannot drop below 1 (RoE).

So we subtract 8 from 5, according to rule 1; we apply rule 2, which states that the Str cannot be below 0; and we apply rule 3, which states that it cannot drop below 1.

Thus, giving all rules equal regard, we see that the subject ends up with a Str of 1.

It's hard to tell if he's serious about it, or has just hasn't realized that the joke has been run into the ground.

A joke hasn't been run into the ground until we run out of people who haven't heard it before

And if you even think, Hypersmurf, about saying...

Wouldn't dream of it, old chap. That rule looks fairly unambiguous from here.

-Hyp.

 

[Scharlata]

There are three rules to take into account.

1. The poison deals 8 Str damage.
2. An ability score cannot have a value less than 0.
3. The subject's Str score cannot drop below 1 (RoE).

Hi, Hyp!

Hmmm, can't follow you there. I think that you do give argument 3 the most regard not an equal regard. You neglect the full impact of argument 1. You do weigh one sentence of a first level spell heavier than the game mechanic of a set of rules (like poison); that's my impression! We'd have to rename the spell into "Ray of Enfeeblement and further Strength Loss Prevention".

I wouldn't do either.

Kind regards