What ever happened to Role Playing?
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jasamcarl said:
Spare us all the bs victim-complex. People play DND because they in fact do want some level of fluff. But most don't need explicit-hand holding, mechanical encouragment, or go blathering about some incident that usually only means something to they and their group.
We can't all be so self-indulgent.
Touchy, aint we? So tell me, why do you feel victimized?
All D&D players want a bit of fluff? When did you become spokesman for The Collective? For that matter, what, besides a personal guilt trip, gave you the idea I was talking about hand holding? Did it ever occur to you that others might actually like more explicit guidelines to roleplaying in roleplaying games. Not everybody has your insight into the proper way to play after all.
No, we can't all be so self indulgent, but you'll make up for us.
Stormfalcon
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Coming into the thread a bit late, but Ranger REG is right. The rules are not where you're going to find roleplaying. Roleplaying is up to the players and GM. It doesn't matter if it's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5 edition. The rules are simply there to help resolve conflicts, whether they be combat or non-combat. It's up to the players and GM to roleplay, and the GM to encourage it, if they so wish.
Going back to a particular edition is not going to fix the supposed problem. It's not even a band-aid. If you want to see more roleplaying, then focus on the players, not the rules. If you're the GM, give XP rewards for good roleplaying. Lead by example by roleplaying well yourself. When possible, give some emphasis on non-combat solutions and reward them well for it (and alternately, have them face consequences for kicking in the door too often). The bottom line is the GM and the players, not the rules.
Going back to a particular edition is not going to fix the supposed problem. It's not even a band-aid. If you want to see more roleplaying, then focus on the players, not the rules. If you're the GM, give XP rewards for good roleplaying. Lead by example by roleplaying well yourself. When possible, give some emphasis on non-combat solutions and reward them well for it (and alternately, have them face consequences for kicking in the door too often). The bottom line is the GM and the players, not the rules.
Tsyr said:
Not everybody has the knack for doing it off the cuff, as it were. Many could use a bit of help, which is usually harder to find than a rational American conservative in too many RPG books.
Rewards for good roleplaying would be nice. GMs who encourage roleplaying would do much to make playing better. But to get more of those would require rules that encourage GMs to encourage roleplaying.
Unfortunately, so long as it's 'just a game' we're not going to see such.
mythusmage said:
It occurs to me everytime someone like you goes into this type of rant. But, both the nature of the products published and the content of the discussion on this messageboard suggest that the plurality wants rules and minimum of fluff. What makes you my better in the art of self-indulgence is that you think you can change this inconvenient reality through a lot of whining.
And what made me think that you wanted handholding? Perhaps the fact that you apparently found the it difficult to find the rp advice in the rulebooks; i'm sorry you are so confused. Perhaps in 4.0, all types of extremly literal world-info and a standard list of pc dialogue responses will be published on the front and back covers of the PHB.
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jasamcarl said:
Should I throw a tizzy? Should I rant and rave? Should I throw a snit? Do I want to see hysterical giggling from a grown man. (Am I overestimating the chap's maturity? Don't answer that last one, it was a rhetorical question.)
Most people refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed foe, but I'm of the opinion the sooner they're put out their misery, the better off the world will be.
The Little Raven
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mythusmage said:
Rewards and rules for encouraging "good" roleplaying? How will that work?
Let's say I'm playing an elf... a very arrogant, very racist elf. I hate humans. I hate dwarves. I hate anyone who isn't a full-blooded elf. I fall in with a group of humans and dwarves. They all speak Common, which I understand. However, I refuse to lower myself to speak such a base language, and speak only in Elven. Noone in the party speaks Elven, thus making things harder on everything else. Noone can understand me, but I can understand them. A number of arguments and insults lead to a near fight, which is disrupted by an ambush by some orcs. We fight and win, then move on and camp, still not very friendly with eachother.
At the end of the game, the DM PENALIZED me because I was "not trying to fit into the party."
Now, since my character concept was a xenophobic elf, and I played it to a T... why should I be penalized? Would these rules for encouraging roleplaying reward me for adhering to my concept or penalize me for not fitting into the group?
jasamcarl said:
It occurs to me everytime someone like you goes into this type of rant. But, both the nature of the products published and the content of the discussion on this messageboard suggest that the plurality wants rules and minimum of fluff. What makes you my better in the art of self-indulgence is that you think you can change this inconvenient reality through a lot of whining.
Now I see why you stay stuck in the muck and mire, you set your sights too low. (Probably a refugee from alt.flame, where the typical post has all the heat of ice cream)
Did it ever occur to you, Mr. "Speaks From Life Experience", that some prefer crunch because they don't know it could be played any other way?
You want D&D to stay the way it is because you can't stand the thought of change. It frightens you. You'd prefer that things remain the way they are, they way they should be. Sorry, but the world don't work that way. Things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But they change. Accepting that fact is a step towards wisdom.
You could get so much more out of D&D, you and your friends, were you to treat it as a roleplaying game, and not just as Munchkin with fiddly bits.
And what made me think that you wanted handholding? Perhaps the fact that you apparently found the it difficult to find the rp advice in the rulebooks; i'm sorry you are so confused. Perhaps in 4.0, all types of extremly literal world-info and a standard list of pc dialogue responses will be published on the front and back covers of the PHB.
Then why do they make it so hard to find? Why the emphasis on combat? Where's the information on the basic personalities of the races? Why no guidelines for awarding XP for actions other than killing things?
D&D does not provide all the tools that it could. That is my beef with it. Call it whatever you will, I know you speak from ignorance. You assume I post as you would post were you in the same position. You are either unwilling or unable to see that others may have different motives for commenting than you would under the same circumstances.
You don't know people, you have no empathy. You are unable to understand what others are feeling, what others are saying and you show this in your commentary. You produce nothing but an empty wind, and so are worthy of nothing more than silence. So rant, rave, rage, and stomp your feet all you wish, I will not hear you.
Mourn said:
(snip)
Some people just don't get it. You would be better served to give him a good chewing out and look for another group. I suspect he deliberately ignored anything you had to say about your character, since he knew the "One True Way" to play D&D.
So now I present a guideline for DMs
[guideline]
Never penalize a player for playing his character according to concept. Leave that up to the players, who can do a better job of disciplining the errant soul in game than you ever could using metagaming methods.
In other words, let the players as their characters tell the miscreant his ways are not welcome, and if he wishes to be a part of the group he'd better mend his ways. Peer pressure as opposed to the "Word of God".
[/guideline]
Your milage may vary.
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