What ever happened to Role Playing?

[Kanegrundar]

??? When did D&D become more than a game???

All too often they are the only parts made tangible, and even when guidelines for roleplay are included, some folks dismiss them as, 'fluff'.

Frankly, considering RPGs as just games, and playing them as such, shortchanges them no end. If you must treat D&D as 'just a game' you might as well play Munchkin. At least there you're expected to kill things and take their stuff with none of that roleplaying garbage.

Can people do more with D&D? Yes, but not as long as they are given no encouragement to do so, and are actively discouraged by the small minded and shallow.

How can you give guidelines to giving XP based on roleplaying when roleplaying is subjective? One person's personality for a half-orc is another's elf. Unless everyone in the group agrees on what makes for good roleplaying, all you're going to face is arguements over interpretations on who roleplayed what well. Do you shortchange the player that has a great character with an excellent background and a fully developed personality because he isn't comfortable speaking in character and prefers to describe his character's actions in the third person? Roleplaying does not require rules or guidelines. I always thought the examples of a session in progress was as good as you could get to giving an expample of RP in action. Then again maybe I'm just being small-minded, no wait, shallow.

Explain something to me since I'm obvious not the genius that you are. When did D&D become more than a game? I can see the use of D&D as an educational tool in certain circumstances, but overall unless you're getting paid to either playtest or write products all D&D will ever be is a game. What more can be done with D&D than play the GAME? I think you are expecting way too much from a recreational pursuit. What difference does it make how anyone plays D&D? IMC, there's a lot of combat. It's not hack and slash. There's a point to the combat, and there are many sessions we don't fight a single thing. It's fun for us. I'm sure you'd consider us "pretenders to the throne of what D&D should be", but that doesn't make either of us more right.

Kane

 

[tetsujin28]

Those are my thoughts on this subject. If you want to call be a troll all you'll be doing is showing the rest of the ENWorld community how small and shallow you are.

I hereby declare myself small and shallow

 

[tsadkiel]

Let's say I'm playing an elf... a very arrogant, very racist elf. I hate humans. I hate dwarves. I hate anyone who isn't a full-blooded elf. I fall in with a group of humans and dwarves.


. . . .


Now, since my character concept was a xenophobic elf, and I played it to a T... why should I be penalized? Would these rules for encouraging roleplaying reward me for adhering to my concept or penalize me for not fitting into the group?

Have to say I wouldn't have allowed the character in the first place. If you hate humans and dwarves, what are you doing hanging out with them?

 

[fusangite]

mistergone says

What happened to NOT STEALING MY NAME?!?!?!

Yeah -- perhaps you (MrGone not mistergone) could arrive at a handle that does not bring the august mistergone into disrupute. I initially did a double take when I read this thread because I was used to the original mistergone, with whom I agree on much.

I would caution you against extrapolating what people's games are like directly from the questions we ask and issues we discuss on these boards.

I guess I'm strongly cautioning people against doing this because I don't want people to get the impression I'm a religion-obsessed misogynist with a poor grasp of the rules.

 

[Angcuru]

You see, 3rd edition is geared towards character optimization and powergaming. You have feats ECLs, etc. to blame for that. I find that 3rd edition is a crucible of sorts. Of you can successfully roleplay in 3rd Ed, you can role-play with ANYthing.

I myself prefer the in-depth characters to the optimized ones. See my story hour for details, once I have a chance to update it.

 

[Ranger REG]

You see, 3rd edition is geared towards character optimization and powergaming. You have feats ECLs, etc. to blame for that. I find that 3rd edition is a crucible of sorts. Of you can successfully roleplay in 3rd Ed, you can role-play with ANYthing.

I myself prefer the in-depth characters to the optimized ones. See my story hour for details, once I have a chance to update it.

"When dice conflict with the story, the story always wins.

"Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game; they're problems with the player."

It's a couple of lines from the Role-Playing Game Manifesto, written by the folks who brought BESM to us, Guardians of Order (also publishes BESM d20 and Silver Age Sentinel d20).

I think I should add that to my sig here.

You want to teach/learn ROLE-playing, set up a thread and call it Drama 101.

 

[Bagpuss]

Um, Arcana Unearthed isn't about toys at all. Do you own it? Have you actually read it?

It puts a ridiculous amount of options in the hands of the GM and players.

Those two statements are directly opposed to each other.

Now you've got me confused why can't more options be given to both the players and the DM?

Or is it that options are 'toys' (in your opinion)? Therefore something with more options has to be about 'toys'?

 

[Bagpuss]

As to how many threads are on these boards are about roleplaying....

Its easier to debate rule mechanics as they are written down and can be refered to by the people involved in such a debate.

People tend to only post questions about stuff they don't understand, or when things are not going well. Hence you see questions about rules people don't understand (very rarerly do people post about rules that they do and think work well, unless it is to counter someone that has said the opposite). You tend to see "non-game mechanics" posts from DM's/Player's when something goes wrong in the game, "Arrgh TPK!" or "We have this rude player."

You do occasionally see posts by GM's or Player's about how someone's RP has screwed up the game, IE: They killed a PC, but claim its "In Character", but rarerly.

All this sort of implies to me that roleplaying is going on but on the whole most people are happy with it, otherwise they would be complaining about it in the forums and asking how to encourage RP in their games.

 

[rounser]

Get real. What do you see more of on ENWorld - this:

Planning campaign story arcs
Balancing linear play versus railroading
Villains
Creating engaging NPCs
Creating hooky adventure hooks
Memorable PC personality traits and backgrounds

Or this:

Is this correct paladin alignment behaviour?
What campaign setting should I use/is best?
What is the best/worst book of crunch?
A player in my group sucks, should I ditch them?
Discussion of the merits of weapons/feats/skills/domains
This spell is broken discussions

At the end of the day, alignment is just another mechanic (with a pseudo-moral twist), IMO, which is why it gets discussed a lot. Call a spade a spade; you all know where roleplayers heads are mostly at (rules, crunch, settings with a macro-level focus), and their buying habits reflect that accordingly. They don't like thinking of the nitty gritty of the game (i.e. adventures and NPCs) - that's too much like hard work - but prefer the abstract and the mechanical (i.e. rules and nations) because that's more fun to think about, and tickles powergaming and "aint that cool" nerves. Speaking of which, MrGone seems to have touched a raw one - siding with mythusmage/Psion on this one.

 

[jasamcarl]

Get real. What do you see more of on ENWorld - this:

Planning campaign story arcs
Balancing linear play versus railroading
Villains
Creating engaging NPCs
Creating hooky adventure hooks
Memorable PC personality traits and backgrounds

Or this:

Is this correct paladin alignment behaviour?
What campaign setting should I use/is best?
What is the best/worst book of crunch?
A player in my group sucks, should I ditch them?
Discussion of the merits of weapons/feats/skills/domains
This spell is broken discussions

At the end of the day, alignment is just another mechanic (with a pseudo-moral twist), IMO, which is why it gets discussed a lot. Call a spade a spade; you all know where roleplayers heads are mostly at (rules, crunch, settings with a macro-level focus), and their buying habits reflect that accordingly. They don't like thinking of the nitty gritty of the game (i.e. adventures and NPCs) - that's too much like hard work - but prefer the abstract and the mechanical (i.e. rules and nations) because that's more fun to think about, and tickles powergaming and "aint that cool" nerves. Speaking of which, MrGone seems to have touched a raw one - siding with mythusmage/Psion on this one.

More likely, they think about it, they just don't need someone holding out a hand and leading them through it. Some of us draw inspiration from sources other than rp products. And some like to take the small spark of an idea presented by a monster entry in the MM, and flesh it out ourselves..

Need I spell this out again, level of discussion about rp is not a good indicator of level rp in the majority of games.

Prove to me that the majority of games are in need of this type of published attention...When you have that, feel free to be condescending. But until that point, those who make this argument seem self-indulgent and, ironically, not very creative.