Level Up (A5E) [+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?

[Kinematics]

Get rid of at least 1 of the 6 stats. They may have made sense in past editions with wildly different mechanics & actual niche protection but at least two of them are so much better than the other 4 that they invoke stereotypes like this one.

While I would very much like to rebuild the entire stat structure, that basically explicitly fails the requirement for backwards compatibility. We may still be able to redefine how each of the stats are used, though, to a certain extent.

Someone at wotc keeps trying to shop some screwy version of initiative (speed factor, greyhawk initiative, etc), this person needs to accept that it is really problematic for how most folks run initiative & the game and accept that initiative is not the proper place for the tactical gameplay someone at wotc left out from 5e and add tactical combat to the core gameplay again.

I can see how the attempted changes to initiative are related to things I'd like to fix, but yeah, overall, it's way more hassle than benefit. Doesn't mean those problems don't need to be solved, but initiative isn't the avenue for it.

Gear in general (ie weapons & armor) need more designspace, as a GM it's important to have headroom there to give out an improved bit of gear that is subjectively better for slower leveling games. I don't care if this is a condensed weapon/armor list with fewer choices or not as long as it results in more room than +# & more/larger dice. "do I want the d6 d8 or d10 version of my finess/1h/2h/heavy weapon" is pants on head stupid design & painful for slower advancing campaigns unless they are built into a system like fate where the numbers are just the tip of the iceberg.

Very much this. Collapse the damage range, and add other features. I know @Morrus made a comment about something similar, at least with armor. Something like, a swordbreaker that's kinda crappy damage, but has the change to break the enemy's weapon. Or a weapon that's designed for disarming opponents. Or a weapon that's better at defending, so has a boost to AC. And fix whips; an entangling one-handed weapon should be a useful choice.

I would even like something like a parrying weapon: As a reaction, you can negate the damage from an opponent's attacks, but you may not use the Attack Action on your next turn. Or a sap: Does double/triple damage for the purpose of knocking someone unconscious. (Actual HP damage remains at baseline.)

And various other ideas. Because the current differentiations are bland and not very useful. Bludgeoning/Slashing/Piercing (rarely matters). Light/Medium/Heavy (only matters for offhand weapons and small creatures). And maybe Finesse (for Dex vs Str). Then how big a damage die can you get.

 

[tetrasodium]

While I would very much like to rebuild the entire stat structure, that basically explicitly fails the requirement for backwards compatibility. We may still be able to redefine how each of the stats are used, though, to a certain extent.


I can see how the attempted changes to initiative are related to things I'd like to fix, but yeah, overall, it's way more hassle than benefit. Doesn't mean those problems don't need to be solved, but initiative isn't the avenue for it.


Very much this. Collapse the damage range, and add other features. I know @Morrus made a comment about something similar, at least with armor. Something like, a swordbreaker that's kinda crappy damage, but has the change to break the enemy's weapon. Or a weapon that's designed for disarming opponents. Or a weapon that's better at defending, so has a boost to AC. And fix whips; an entangling one-handed weapon should be a useful choice.

I would even like something like a parrying weapon: As a reaction, you can negate the damage from an opponent's attacks, but you may not use the Attack Action on your next turn. Or a sap: Does double/triple damage for the purpose of knocking someone unconscious. (Actual HP damage remains at baseline.)

And various other ideas. Because the current differentiations are bland and not very useful. Bludgeoning/Slashing/Piercing (rarely matters). Light/Medium/Heavy (only matters for offhand weapons and small creatures). And maybe Finesse (for Dex vs Str). Then how big a damage die can you get.

don't get me wrong, I agree that those missing tactical combat elements omitted from core still need fixing & wasn't suggesting otherwise by calling out that initiative is the wrong place for it in a ttrpg when it might be fine in a Crpg. I like the idea of weapon/armor with other features like you note, but I like it in addition to subjective elements like crit range/crit threat/acp/brutal/defensive/etc from prior versions where you could have a weapon that was not obviously better or worse than currently used ones that still had quite a bit of discussion over if it was better for Alice or why Bob really likes it so much better than his weapon if only he could use it.

stripping out one or more stats & including a simple conversion would probably be the easiest way to fix a lot of stuff, but it's not the only way & there are tons of ways to bring the other 4 stats up or bring those two favored stats over to a reasonable point. A lot of people have gone into enough detail that rehashing it is probably not needed.

 

[Giauz]

Things I might want to try in Advanced 5e are:

Skills like in more story-oriented games to cede more DM controls to the players. This would allow to players to tailor adventures more to what they imagine their stories being.

More ways to differentiate one PC of x class and y race from another with the same x and y. Perhaps get rid of the idea of proficiency and expand on what skills can do rather than just leaving that up to DM fiat.

Going with this is more opportunities to use the full range of the 7 standard dice. Maybe different skills use different dice or combos of dice.

Simple rules for making the environment part of the PCs' inventories. For example, almost anything can be a weapon.

Two HP systems. One that is large and easily lost, but is impractical to heal to full (represents danger over many encounters). The second is a very small pool of HP that is hard to lose, produces chronic or permanent penalties when lost, and is easy to replenish (represents danger "in the moment" and major wounds or impairments). I detail such a system in the Deadlier Encounters thread.

Perhaps I'll add more later or refine my thoughts.

 

[battlebaby]

• alternate multiclass.
• better capstones.
• class wide combat combos and stunts (maneuvers).
• class wide martial arts combat styles and combos (improved versions for monk).
• class wide combat styles and combos (improved versions for fighter).
• class wide other spellcasting options: things you could do with a spell slot that is not casting a spell.
• (minor) healing and AoE options for all classes (major for cleric, druids, and healing archetypes)
• better feature naming (i.e. roguish archetype to "brotherhood", reckless attack to "recklessness", etc).
• more complex armor (armor layers?!) and weapon.
• optional wound or lethal critical rules.
• class wide otherwordly investments (contracts/powers) (highly improved to warlocks)

 

[battlebaby]

@Mike Myler @Morrus, another good idea that was raised by another poster on a different thread, I thought I would write it here to see if this is something that could be added in the design of A5E:

- Using HD as a resource to fuel some powers or abilities, like spend 1 HD on a short rest to recover from 1 level of exhaustion, or spend 1 HD when holding your breath to recover X minute of air. On the opposite side, having effects and affliction that targets and drains HD would be interesting as another way to threaten the party beyond HP and Exhaustion.

- Maybe having Inspiration as a common, stacking pool for all the party instead of just 1 per character. In the same vein, have special Action options that are fueled by inspiration. Maybe even the DM could have an Inspiration pool for his side of the fight, using them as the ''doom points'' from 2d20. Like, when a creature crit the DM can either roll an extra damage die OR add one Inspiration point in his pool.

I can see some classes spending HD in different ways, too:

• barbarian using HD while rage to regain hit points.
• fighter spending HD to increase healing from second wind.
• wizard spending HD to recover even more expended slots.

 

[battlebaby]

Use Exhaustion as a resource:
* barbarian be able to use rage beyond "uses before long rest" by opting to gain an exhaustion level. Same should apply to druid wild shape, or bard inspiration.

 

[coolAlias]

A little late to the party so I'll just echo some points others have already mentioned:

• More granular skill progression / choices; I don't want to go back to the 3e/d20 system, but I'd like something somewhere in between
• More meaningful / varied weapon and armor choices, whether that is done via more mechanical options built in to the equipment lists, better feat support similar to the UA weapon feats, or some of both
• Maybe an optional item quality system of some sort, perhaps as simple as having the option to purchase or craft masterwork gear, or a little more complex with several quality levels (both good and bad).
• I'd really like to see more nuance around shields: bucklers, tower, different materials (wood, metal, etc.) providing different benefits, combat maneuvers such as using your reaction to take cover behind your shield to gain an advantage vs ranged attacks but losing the shield AC bonus against melee, etc.

 

[Gangrel44]

Things I'd like to see off the top of my head:

• More customization and choice as characters advance through levels
• Stuff to spend money on
• A bit more nuance to advantage, but not too much (it's a great mechanic, and I much prefer it to a plethora of micro bonuses)
• An easy super-simple "deadliness" switch which makes it really simple to play a cinematic or a gritty game; very simple switch
• Martial maneuvers
• I think I'd do something with species, but I'm not sure what yet

More varieties of weapons,and a better weight encumbrance/lifting system...
And +4 and +5 weapons and armor...

 

[Lefi2017]

More varieties of weapons,and a better weight encumbrance/lifting system...
And +4 and +5 weapons and armor...

are you shure? Should there be a way to have mosnter higher to hit and ac too without it being magical armor

 

[tetrasodium]

are you shure? Should there be a way to have mosnter higher to hit and ac too without it being magical armor

Pretty sure he's talking about how it was counted in 3.5 Here's an example from 3.5 dmg223. It wasn't that those things intrinsically added +# so much as that was how they were priced for buying/crafting. a +1 longsword, +0 bane longsword, & +0 frost longsword all had the same cost. It made balancing magic items a lot easier as a gm & combined with things like crit mod/crit multiplier/acp/asf/etc there was a lot of room to grow at almost any level without really changing the power scale much if any. Because players would naturally get rid of old gear & replace it with new stuff over time any mistakes the GM made could eventually be corrected without needing to force the player's hand. You couldn't have more than a +3 bonus & usually some combo of effect alongside raw +whatever was better/more interesting than a flat +1 better