Level Up (A5E) [+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?

[doctorbadwolf]

Nonmagic? This sounds more like a "Minstrel" archetype for the Rogue class. Or, "Troubadour".

Why?
Rogues aren’t inspirational, IMO, nor can they normally affect groups of people into emotional displays, quiet a savage beast, or any number of other things bards one stories can do. Nor should Bards be Sneak Attacking as their primary combat contribution.

IRL, work songs literally make people work harder, and more effectively. It’s easy to imagine a bard giving bonuses to saves against Exhaustion without casting any spell or doing any overt magic.

 

[CapnZapp]

Seriously though, when I see a game with an economic system that says "It costs 50% of the market value of an item to make that item, you can only sell items for 50% of their market value, any particularly valuable magic item is un-sellable because nobody wants it or can afford it" I just freaking lose it. I will foam and froth and I will bite you and give you rabies.

No RPG has ever had an economic system that comes anywhere close to being realistic.

D&D in general and this Level Up game in particular is not where I'd focus my efforts in that area...

 

[CapnZapp]

In the end, though, I find it unsatisfying. There is something fun about a nice weapons chart with a bunch of stuff on it,

This.

D&D just isn't generic. It has specific, even idiosyncratic, classes, items and so on.

It's engaging and making sense of this "mess" that makes a large part of making D&D feel like D&D.

Avoid all temptation to clean this up! So very many games that are wannabe D&D killers only to end up on the heap of dusty forgotten games...

Especially for a project like this. If anything players love that there's five different varieties of guisarme-glaives, even if they only do so secretly and won't admit it.

Same thing with classes: D&D just isn't generic classes. A Ranger simply gets stuff a Fighter can't do, and vice versa.

Even ability scores. The way they all are used for different things, and not equal in value is a cornerstone of the D&D experience that shouldn't be underestimated.

A game as 5E adjacent as this one should definitely not experiment in these areas.

 

[CapnZapp]

- My most wanted thing would be more mundane classes and archtypes, ala AiME. Having all classes be inherently magical makes it hard to play theme differing from high magic heroics.

The general question here is:

But do the gaming public really want a more traditional experience?

Magical classes is, as I see it, part of a greater trend to move D&D away from classic Lord of the Ringsian Thieves World etc grounded fantasy and into... something else with inspiration drawn from sources outside classic western fantasy.

I guess it's a question for the surveys. My point here is that it might not be a coincidence or an accident so many classes have magic in 5E... and that changing this might not be the job for a project specifically geared to be "advanced 5E Dungeons and Dragons"...?

 

[CapnZapp]

Excited for this. I would suggest waiting to narrow down the themes and content till after WotC have releashed the rumored crunch book in the Fall.

Alright.

If WotC announces an "advanced" product of their own, obviously this project needs to be stopped before it even starts.

(There sure is a gap and opportunity for an advanced 5E like I've been saying for years, but that absolutely depends on WotC not closing it themselves)

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't necessarily need a "crunchier" game in terms of game mechanics. One thing I like about 5e is that I rarely have to look up advanced rules for things like grappling or whatever. However, I would like to see more meaningful character choices as characters level. In 5e, once characters choose their subclass, they are pretty much on a similar path with everyone else in that subclass. Sure, feats exist to provide some variety, but I'd still like some more ways to truly differentiate characters, particularly in higher levels.

Just FYI: that's also called crunch.

Just a matter of differing between player-side crunch and core game crunch!

 

[CapnZapp]

One thing I'd like to add, and I realize this may be far away in the future, is the ability to play on a VTT. I don't foresee getting to play again in person, so compatibility with online play is a must.

I mentioned this earlier, but it bears repeating. So yep.

 

[Lefi2017]

fix long and especially short rests
short rest focused classes get the short end of the stick

the 4-6 encounter rule is way off

create viable solo monsters

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

Number 1...Customization.

Right now 5e is a Theme Park game. All of your prominent character choices are made the first 3 levels, and then your only chouce is to pick a Feat or not. If the DM allows multiclassing, you get more options. So once you're at level 4, you're set on your Class Theme Park. No more class choices.

So Customization.

Some 3rd party books to possibly consider looking at is the Stargate rpg beta, Ultramodern 5e redux, and 5e Hardcore mode by Runehammer. Each takes the core 5e chassis and changes it in some way.

Number 2... Make the first 3 levels mean something. Right now you burn through the first 3 levels so fast that they are irrelevant. And considering that these are the primary levels where you currently make all your choices that sets up all the rest of your Class levels, these levels should mean something.

Number 3... More tactical options. If this is to be an Advanced 5e, than combat should be, well, Advanced. Not saying it has to be like 4e, but maybe like the combat options in the games Fantasy Craft or Astonishing Swordsman & Sorcerers of Hyperborea 2e. Combat Actions and Maneuvers that anybody can do.

Number 4... Implement a form of Skill Challenges, but maybe in the form of Circles from Blades in the Dark.

Number 5... DM Tools. Maybe hire Kevin Crawford for this, if he's willing. He has always had the best GM tools in his games.

Number 6... Have Class options but no Sub classes. Just have options of choice and let players build their ideal sub class from the options. You can even do a Classless Option. Look at Talislanta 5e for an example.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Just two "crunchy" things I'd like to see supported in the 5E design space. These are likely to have significant impacts across a number of subsystems.

First, the big one: make Str as mechanically valuable as Dex, and Int as mechanically valuable as Wis and Cha.

Second, go back to the "traditional" three saving throws: Fort, Ref, Will. (OK, they turned up in 3E, so it's not like they're that traditional). This is kinda related to the first, but much, much easier to do independently.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar