What game is the best simulationist game?

[Bill Zebub]

Go.

It's almost scary how perfectly it models my existence since Covid.

 

[Micah Sweet]

As far as worldbuilding goes, especially economic and governmental systems, Adventuer Conqueror King is excellent.

 

[eternalsage]

I'm surprised that Shadowrun didn't show up on here. I mean, its not REALLY sim, but it has its elements, like calculating the reflections of concussion waves from an explosion, and I always thought their drain mechanic for spell casters felt pretty "realistic"

But yeah, having played a lot of HERO 5th (and I still consider it one of my biggest inspirations, even now) I also echo that it isn't "realistic" so much as a good sim of "cinematic" or even "pulp" action. So if you want to play a MOVIE based on Conan or the Apollo moon landing, or as a team of fire fighters, it works fantastically. And I think that, since most people get their idea of what is realistic from movies, this helps to push it forward in people's minds. And I also agree that it actually ISN'T all that good at simulating comic books, but part of that is because comic stories are so "fuzzy" and HERO is very much not, it is instead very precise. What I mean is that in comics, whether Superman can beat Batman is a NARRATIVE choice, and not based on pure numbers AT ALL, while in HERO it completely is, there is very little room for narrative in the RAW. This means that in the comics, Batman finds a way to outwit or otherwise level the playing field while that just isn't something possible in HERO. Supes has at least a Speed 6 and a Strength and Body of 60ish, while Batman is doing good to have half those stats, and that is being generous to Bats and hard on Supes. The math just does not work out to Batman winning, lol. This is why most other superhero games out there fall much more squarely in the Narrativist camp, because that ACTUALLY simulates the writing of a comic better.

Never played GURPS, but from many discussions with many players, it has the same issues. Works great for settings where every one is more or less on the same playing field and not so much when doing something like superheroes, etc.

I concur on BRP/RuneQuest/Mythras. The closest to a "sim" system as I am willing to go anymore, and its still more "deadly combat" and "setting immersion" than modeling Newton's equations with dice.

I used to get really into the "realism" of rules, but I long ago realized that it actually got in the way of telling a story and just having fun, and these days I have largely come to forcefully reject those kinds of games (no shade to those that like them, mind, to each their own, for sure). I find I can do an accurate enough world by being a GM with an understanding of how physics work, basically. Then again, we had one of our group who ran their 1st and only HERO game and completely derailed the story by having a character who had been punched through LITERAL BUILDINGS being put in the hospital after a motorcycle accident. He tried to just follow the narrative as I had coached him, but he didn't have a firm enough grasp of what was narratively appropriate to be able to just fudge it. I should have told him to run the numbers first, lol.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I don't think crunch necessarily equals simulating "real life".

Are most people thinking about physics when they think about "real life"? I wonder if there's a perspective that's more about emotional bleed - so we are simulating a person's psychic state as well as we can. Something like Dread perhaps.

 

[eternalsage]

I don't think crunch necessarily equals simulating "real life".

Are most people thinking about physics when they think about "real life"? I wonder if there's a perspective that's more about emotional bleed - so we are simulating a person's psychic state as well as we can. Something like Dread perhaps.

Both the Alien RPG and Mothership do a really good job with this, in my opinion, with their Stress/Panic systems. They are such similar games that I can't help but wonder if its fidelity to source material or if its copying homework in Free League's part, but whatever.

The important thing is that both systems do a really good job of modeling that build up of stress and the eventual break that comes with it. Not sure, but I bet it would work well in a more traditional fantasy setting as well, if it were more "realistic" and less power fantasy. It beats the hell out of the tired and troublesome "sanity" of CoC and its ilk.

The One Ring's system of Hope and Shadow does a really great job of simulating Tolkien's writing, which is in turn a romanticized take on human psychology and also deserves mention here.

 

[aramis erak]

For me, the best general simulationist game is BTRC's CORPS 2e. (1e is the same general mechanics but not as thorough; 3E is a settingbook for EABA, which is a different universal that's more cinematic.) The CORPS VDS (Vehicle Design System) is really nicely done; as flexible as GURPS Vehicles, in half the page count. 3G³: Guns Guns Guns provides weapons design. Do note: if you ignore skill level limits, you get superhuman function.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Huh. I wouldn't think of basic EABA as cinematic.

 

[aramis erak]

Huh. I wouldn't think of basic EABA as cinematic.

by comparison to CORPS, it's almost scooby-doo level. And by comparison to SpaceTime, both are a bit cinematic... that one (and it's shared system TimeLords) are both gritty enough to strip your skin....

I converted my T20 THB playtest campaign into an EABA Playtest campaign... for 1E. (I just didn't care for Ythrek)...
I did have to convert stats first... COnverted the T20 3-20 into CT/MT/T4 2-15, and used MT skill receipts from prior service to vagely match the t20 skills. then used the results of that to become EABA ... TAtt+2 = EAtt; TSkill=E_Dice. MT Task TNs work PERFECTLY...

The other thing about EABA - despite protestations of having hated WEG d6, EABA is perfectly scaled to the same range of dice for atts and skills, only changing the difficulty numbers for keep 3... The damage as armor effect is also pretty cinematic.

That said, that it takes more than a second hit to do double the impairment to skills is present in both CORPS and EABA. It's both realistic in both contexts, but in EABA, it's also affecting healing times... Think of CORPS as EABA played with "Take 4 on all dice but one"

 

[Thomas Shey]

by comparison to CORPS, it's almost scooby-doo level. And by comparison to SpaceTime, both are a bit cinematic... that one (and it's shared system TimeLords) are both gritty enough to strip your skin....

You forgot the original WarpWorld, which also used that system (yes, I have all three somewhere).

I converted my T20 THB playtest campaign into an EABA Playtest campaign... for 1E. (I just didn't care for Ythrek)...
I did have to convert stats first... COnverted the T20 3-20 into CT/MT/T4 2-15, and used MT skill receipts from prior service to vagely match the t20 skills. then used the results of that to become EABA ... TAtt+2 = EAtt; TSkill=E_Dice. MT Task TNs work PERFECTLY...

The other thing about EABA - despite protestations of having hated WEG d6, EABA is perfectly scaled to the same range of dice for atts and skills, only changing the difficulty numbers for keep 3... The damage as armor effect is also pretty cinematic.

That said, that it takes more than a second hit to do double the impairment to skills is present in both CORPS and EABA. It's both realistic in both contexts, but in EABA, it's also affecting healing times... Think of CORPS as EABA played with "Take 4 on all dice but one"

I'll take your word for it; I own a lot of Greg's games but the only one I ran for any length at all was the original TimeLords.

 

[aramis erak]

You forgot the original WarpWorld, which also used that system (yes, I have all three somewhere).

Can't forget what you didn't know... I've got dead tree of SpaceTime.... Oy vey, math heavy... but was unaware of WarpWorld.