What happened with Vampire?

[dm4hire]

I think one of the other problems with WoD in general the more I think about it is the whole faction system. There are too many factions and the game is very political. Clans work to some extent but perhaps it would be better if they just gave a couple examples and then rules for creating your own. They did the off shoot book that covered playing an independent vampire, but I don't think it was self contained.

Vampire still lasted longer than Nightlife, which preceded it by a year. Vampire covers much of Nightlife's ground and is more expanded as Nightlife had everything in one book to start with; players could play vampires, werewolves, ghosts, demons and a few other monster types. The Magic book introduced sorcerers/witches to the game as well. I've often wondered after Nightlife disappeared if some of the designers didn't drift over to White Wolf.

 

[Yora]

And you've avoided mentioning the sparkling elephant in the room entirely!

Vampires are big, big business. I would say that popular interest in them dwarfs what there was in the 90's. Vampires have gone mainstream, man.

I wonder if the whole thing might indeed be partly to the changing of times. I have never been a Vampire player, but it always appeared to me as a game set firmly in the 80s (not sure why, but american media always look a decade older to me than they actually are). But these are not the 1980s anymore, but the 2010s. Much like cyberpunk reinvented itself during the 90s and gave rise to post-cyberpunk by pretty much dropping the whole "punk" aspect, it appears to me that Vampire may possibly have lost its relevance in the present day. Even Buffy looks much more "modern" and fresh to me compared to Vampire, which always reminds me of my childhood in the 80s. Again, this might all be my slightly wrong perspective as an outsider (but then, outsiders are the people who become new players), but I can't really imagine Vampire set in the present day. The video game Bloodlines is from 2004, and even that one still looks like it's set in 1984.
The setting of Vampire seems to be based in the themes of the 80s, and I wouldn't have any idea how to make it blend with the Zeitgeist of the 2010s.

 

[Gilbetron]

I wonder if the whole thing might indeed be partly to the changing of times. I have never been a Vampire player, but it always appeared to me as a game set firmly in the 80s (not sure why, but american media always look a decade older to me than they actually are). But these are not the 1980s anymore, but the 2010s. Much like cyberpunk reinvented itself during the 90s and gave rise to post-cyberpunk by pretty much dropping the whole "punk" aspect, it appears to me that Vampire may possibly have lost its relevance in the present day. Even Buffy looks much more "modern" and fresh to me compared to Vampire, which always reminds me of my childhood in the 80s. Again, this might all be my slightly wrong perspective as an outsider (but then, outsiders are the people who become new players), but I can't really imagine Vampire set in the present day. The video game Bloodlines is from 2004, and even that one still looks like it's set in 1984.
The setting of Vampire seems to be based in the themes of the 80s, and I wouldn't have any idea how to make it blend with the Zeitgeist of the 2010s.

Definitely not the 80s, unless you experienced a different set of 80s from me. Vampire took off because it captured the emerging feel of the 90s. Gothpunk, primarily. The games were extremely evocative, and had a lightning-in-the-bottle mixture of many elements that appealed to many groups of gamers, as well as pulling in tons of non-gamers. nWoD was, as someone said, just kinda of what had to come next. WoD was played out, and they went in a new direction trying to capture to feel of 2000. Unfortunately, the "feel" of the oughts was rather amorphous - vaguely Emo, but Emo wasn't fun like Goth. The system was cleaned up in many ways, but WoD was never about the system (beyond dot-counting). Plus, the RPG world tanked, hard. The d20 bust was combined with the dot-com burst which was combined with the ascendency of video games, particularly WoW. Only Kickstarter saved RPGs, allowing all the great indie ideas a chance to finally emerge with a new feel for what RPGs can bring to the table (hint, it isn't 4E-like miniatures and simulation-like gameplay - video games are much better at that). Now Onyx Path has the reins, and they seem to have a much more interesting direction than nWoD, putting more of the fun back in the game lines. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Exalted 3E, although I think the setting is played out, sadly. But that's ok, because Demon is nifty, and I'm looking forward to the other restarts they are doing.

Oh, and Changeling: The Lost is awesome.

tldr; WoD was the cool, fun, goth child of the 90s, nWoD was the confused, bland child of the 00s, and um ... nnWoD seems to be the new child that seems to be fun out of that the gate, but only time will tell.

 

[Matt-M-McElroy]

Seems to be a little confusion in the thread...that can happen when companies change to new publishing models and other companies come in and take over product lines I suppose. Hopefully I can help out a little bit with some information. For the latest news and updates folks can follow the Onyx Path Publishing website. You can check out the publication schedule for a look at what is planned for this year.

OPP is supporting both Classic and New World of Darkness, plus Exalted (all three of which are under license from CCP). They also acquired outright the Scion and Trinity IPs, both of which are getting new editions later this year. They will also be publishing some creator-owned games like Cavaliers of Mars down the road.

For folks wanting Print books you can always check the Print Selection of White Wolf titles at DTRPG.

Both classic books being reformatted for PoD and new titles like the above mentioned Blood & Smoke. Onyx Path also does Kickstarters each quarter to fund the creation of Deluxe Limited Edition books, again for both WoDs and Exalted 3rd Edition. Recent KS include Demon: the Descent, a new World of Darkness game tied to the God Machine concept introduced in the World of Darkness core book and the currently running Anarchs Unbound, a brand new supplement for Vampire: the Masquerade.

Currently OPP usually releases a PDF of a new title first, gives fans and the game's developer a chance to look over the file and give feedback on the layout and to catch any errors that might have been missed or cropped up during the layout/design process (missing sidebars, headers, etc) and then once any fixes are made, the print version gets uploaded and proofed before finally going live for sale on DrivehruRPG. Everyone who buys the PDF early gets a discount on the Print version to match the PDF+Print combo price (meaning after all versions are for sale there are options for customers to buy just the PDF, just the PoD, or a combo pack of PDF+Print, the discount is set up to match that combo price so early PDF customers are not penalized for being early adopters). You can read more about that process here if you like.

Onyx Path is also beta-testing a new Retailer program where approved stores can order Print on Demand books direct from DTRPG. There are also Retailer tiers on every Kickstarter for stores looking to carry the Deluxe and Limited Edition titles.

For folks interesting in the Live Action games, a different new company, By Night Studios, has recently acquired the license for MET and published a new comprehensive Vampire LARP core book, Mind's Eye Theatre: Vampire the Masquerade. The PDF is available now and Print versions are on the way. They also have a new Storyteller book and a historical setting guide in development.

I know that is a lot of links and some of it was already covered a bit in the thread, but I hope that answers a few questions and provides sources for more info.

Regards,

Matt

 

[Gilbetron]

OPP

How long did it take for you guys to stop saying, "yeah, you know me" - cause I can't stop

Demon: the Descent

So, let me just say that Demon is really fun. I like the descriptive phrased you guys use: "Techgnostic Espionage", Not to mention the sentence, "Being a demon in the World of Darkness is like being an intelligence agent deep behind enemy territory."

Makes me want to grab my d10s and start rolling!

Hmm. I know people will disagree, but to me what differentiates WoD from nWoD and what the new takes on nWoD bring back is that WoD was evocative in terms of gaming and stories, whereas nWoD tends to be evocative for stories (there is great stuff in nWoD!). This new stuff seems to bring the gaming evocation back into the picture more.

To put it in terms of a storyteller system:
WoD: Gaming: 5 Story: 4 System: 2
nWoD: Gaming: 2 Story: 5 System: 4
nnWoD: Gaming: 5 Story: 5 System: 5

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

How long did it take for you guys to stop saying, "yeah, you know me" - cause I can't stop

Yeah, you know me!

 

[FuLai]

So what happen with the Vampire MMO ?

 

[Melisende]

Vampire is certainly still going, in two forms. There's a 20th anniversary edition and line being produced; then the 'new World of Darkness' that revamped the system, dropped a lot of the original theme, and produced a new array. That came out around 2004, and underwent a "version 2.0" for the God Machine Chronicle rules this year. The newest version of nWoD started with Vampire's "Blood and Smoke: The Strix Chronicles."

Given that Onyx Path has taken over the publishing duties of these lines from White Wolf, they're pretty healthy. It may not be the heyday of the late 90s, but the community backs a lot of the products. The healthy release schedule includes product for all their major nWoD lines, and several oWoD lines. The revised 20th edition work for Werewolf and Mage are both hugely supported, with Wraith 20 just announced. Mage 20 has a Kickstarter that's raised $500,000.

 

[Melisende]

So what happen with the Vampire MMO ?

Not a whole lot of news on that front has been released. Last I heard, they are "re-evaluating things".

CCP released a number of the core developers, which is really unfortunate given the success of Bloodlines and other properties under the banner. My guess is that we'll see very little out of this and Onyx Path is going to continue on with the pen and paper games.

 

[Stormonu]

Ah, Trinity - once known as Aeon. Loved that game, need to check my bookshelves for where it disappeared to.

I find myself really liking the stream-lined rules in nWoD, but enjoying a lot of the oWoD lore. I was very happy when I got my paws on the 20th anniversary copy of Vampire.

I was always confused by the decline and disappearance of the WW line. I figured they had just run out of stuff to fill books that would sell (reaching the edition bloat level) and were suffering from overall declining sales after the d20 boom. It did seem though, that the owners of Eve tried to kill the book line entirely - they could have at least kept the core books in print.


Also, don't forget that the oWoD line was also at one time translated into GURPS books...