What have you done with Conjuration(Creation) spells ?
- Thread starter marune
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CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
I think acid arrow is a fine spell as is. I don't think the orb spells are balanced, so I don't allow them. I don't think I'm losing out on a whole lot of flavor by doing so; they're fairly bland.
DreamChaser
Explorer
Here is what I did in place of the orb spells (and the cure/inflict spells too actually). Not currently using it but it was part of a spell unification project i've been working on for a few years now.
Produce Energy
Conjuration (Creation) [special]
Level: 0
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 move action
Range: 0
Effect: 1 orb of energy
Duration: 1 minute or until discharged
Saving Throw: Fortitude or Reflex partial (see below)
Spell Resistance: No
You conjure an orb of energy (acid (a), cold, electricity, fire, force (a), negative (d), positive (d), or sonic—chosen when the spell is cast) into your hand. Conjuring the orb is a move action: it can be thrown at (as a ranged touch attack, range increment 10 feet) or touched to (melee touch attack) a creature or object as a standard action. The orb requires some force to make it burst so merely dropping it or setting it down is not sufficient to expend the orb. An orb can be handed to a creature to be thrown, hurled from a sling, or touched to a willing creature within reach. The effect of the orb depends upon which energy you conjure:
Acid—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) acid damage; target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become sickened for 1 round.
Cold—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) cold damage; target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become fatigued for 1 round.
Electricity—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) electricity damage; targets in metal armor (or made of metal) must succeed at a Fortitude save or become entangled for 1 round.
Fire—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) fire damage; target must succeed at a Reflex save or catch on fire for 1 round.
Force—1d3 (1d2 if thrown) damage; affects incorporeal creatures.
Negative—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) damage to living creatures; heals undead
Positive—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) damage to undead creatures; heals living
Sonic—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) sonic damage; target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become deafened for 1 round.
Heighten:
1st—damage increases to 1d8 (1d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +5)
2nd—damage increases to 2d8 (2d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +10); secondary effects last 1d4+1 rounds.
3rd—damage increases to 3d8 (3d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +15); secondary effects improve:
Acid—Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1 round.
Cold—Fortitude save or become exhausted for 1 round.
Electricity—Fortitude save or become dazed for 1 round.
Fire—Reflex save or become blinded for 1 round.
Sonic—Fortitude save or become stunned for 1 round.
4th— as 3rd level, except damage increases to 4d8 (4d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +20)
5th—as 1st level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
6th, option 1—as 3rd level, except damage increases to 10 points per caster level (8 points per caster level if thrown)
6th, option 2— as 2nd level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
7th— as 3rd level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
8th— as 4th level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
9th—as 6th level, option 1, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
Produce Energy
Conjuration (Creation) [special]
Level: 0
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 move action
Range: 0
Effect: 1 orb of energy
Duration: 1 minute or until discharged
Saving Throw: Fortitude or Reflex partial (see below)
Spell Resistance: No
You conjure an orb of energy (acid (a), cold, electricity, fire, force (a), negative (d), positive (d), or sonic—chosen when the spell is cast) into your hand. Conjuring the orb is a move action: it can be thrown at (as a ranged touch attack, range increment 10 feet) or touched to (melee touch attack) a creature or object as a standard action. The orb requires some force to make it burst so merely dropping it or setting it down is not sufficient to expend the orb. An orb can be handed to a creature to be thrown, hurled from a sling, or touched to a willing creature within reach. The effect of the orb depends upon which energy you conjure:
Acid—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) acid damage; target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become sickened for 1 round.
Cold—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) cold damage; target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become fatigued for 1 round.
Electricity—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) electricity damage; targets in metal armor (or made of metal) must succeed at a Fortitude save or become entangled for 1 round.
Fire—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) fire damage; target must succeed at a Reflex save or catch on fire for 1 round.
Force—1d3 (1d2 if thrown) damage; affects incorporeal creatures.
Negative—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) damage to living creatures; heals undead
Positive—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) damage to undead creatures; heals living
Sonic—1d4 (1d3 if thrown) sonic damage; target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become deafened for 1 round.
Heighten:
1st—damage increases to 1d8 (1d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +5)
2nd—damage increases to 2d8 (2d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +10); secondary effects last 1d4+1 rounds.
3rd—damage increases to 3d8 (3d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +15); secondary effects improve:
Acid—Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1 round.
Cold—Fortitude save or become exhausted for 1 round.
Electricity—Fortitude save or become dazed for 1 round.
Fire—Reflex save or become blinded for 1 round.
Sonic—Fortitude save or become stunned for 1 round.
4th— as 3rd level, except damage increases to 4d8 (4d6 if thrown) + 1 per level (max +20)
5th—as 1st level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
6th, option 1—as 3rd level, except damage increases to 10 points per caster level (8 points per caster level if thrown)
6th, option 2— as 2nd level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
7th— as 3rd level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
8th— as 4th level, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
9th—as 6th level, option 1, except you conjure 1 orb per caster level.
Michael Silverbane
Adventurer
In games that I run, Conjuration (creation) spells deal no more than 1 die of damage per 2 caster levels when they affect a single target, and no more than 1 die of damage per 4 caster levels when they affect multiple targets. They still function as normal against creatures with spell resistance or magic immunity, and those that are instantaneous can still function in an anrea where magic is suppressed, such an with the effect of an antimagic field or a null magic zone.
Later
silver
Later
silver
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
I just switch the Orb spells to Evocation. Alternatly I would allow them as Conjuration if: Their damage can't be augmented my metamagic; and their spell levels were about 1 higher. (I cant "empower" a normal vat of acid, but this orb can do far more damage?)
What is up with WotC throwing spells into just any old school and calling it balanced?
Sure you could put anything in any school if you change the flavor of the spell, but that breaks the game when Diviners can use a Divination Death Spell or Abjurerers can raise the dead with an abjuration spell. (While I haven't seen either, I did see a transmution spell that IIRC, Creates a wight)
I think spells should Just be placed in the schools their effects most qualify them for.
What is up with WotC throwing spells into just any old school and calling it balanced?
Sure you could put anything in any school if you change the flavor of the spell, but that breaks the game when Diviners can use a Divination Death Spell or Abjurerers can raise the dead with an abjuration spell. (While I haven't seen either, I did see a transmution spell that IIRC, Creates a wight)
I think spells should Just be placed in the schools their effects most qualify them for.
A problem I have with those Conjuration(Creation) spells is that they are the Anti-"Magic immunity" spells. If you keep Acid arrow and the few others, it seems strange because Wizards should have created more potent spells to destroy those damn golems (for example).
If you change/remove them all, then Wizards have to become really creative when attacking those creatures...
If you change/remove them all, then Wizards have to become really creative when attacking those creatures...
the Jester
Legend
skeptic said:
Ban 'em.
If I allowed them, they'd be evocation and would allow SR.
Personally, I don't think the orb spells are as bad as a lot of people think they are.
1) They're a level higher than fireball or lightning bolt (4th) and only affect 1 target
2) They require a touch attack vs the auto hit for most area effect spells.
3) A number of them are d4/lvl vs d6/lvl for most blast spells.
There are only two reasons to use an orb spell.
1) They come in a wide variety of typed damages. However this is somewhat self limiting as it's expensive to scribe spells and you only get 2 spells per level for free and you have to find someone you can get them from. It's not like there aren't any other good 4th lvl spells, so you can load up on them willy-nilly to the exclusion of other spells.
2) They bypass SR.
The second reason is really about the only reason to use them at all. You can do the first with energy substitution. So to me the question comes down to "Do you dislike spells that can bypass SR." Cause if you are going to eliminate that aspect of the spells, you might as well ban them cause they're basically useless without it.
1) They're a level higher than fireball or lightning bolt (4th) and only affect 1 target
2) They require a touch attack vs the auto hit for most area effect spells.
3) A number of them are d4/lvl vs d6/lvl for most blast spells.
There are only two reasons to use an orb spell.
1) They come in a wide variety of typed damages. However this is somewhat self limiting as it's expensive to scribe spells and you only get 2 spells per level for free and you have to find someone you can get them from. It's not like there aren't any other good 4th lvl spells, so you can load up on them willy-nilly to the exclusion of other spells.
2) They bypass SR.
The second reason is really about the only reason to use them at all. You can do the first with energy substitution. So to me the question comes down to "Do you dislike spells that can bypass SR." Cause if you are going to eliminate that aspect of the spells, you might as well ban them cause they're basically useless without it.
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