What I don't get RE: FR and High Level NPC's

[Singing Smurf]

At under 200 posts and being here over 5 years, I think it's safe to say I'm Enworld's biggest forum lurker.

<----- *points at postcount*

Methinks I've got you on that one.

 

[grimslade]

The whole argument comes down to perception. If there are so many powerful NPCs, my special unique snowflake does not shine so much. In FR, if I am a wizard, I always will be compared to Elminster or the Blackstaff (RIP) or Alustriel. If I am a ranger, I am less than Drizzt or <shudder> compared to Drizzt if I whine. The NPCs give a perception of the PCs don't matter. Sure Baldur's Gate may get sacked or the macguffin might fall into bad hands, but that is just another day in FR. The citizens of Baldur's Gate don't wonder where were the PC's, they wonder where were the Harpers or whatever flavor of NPC in the crpg or novels talks about.

The novels are both a boon and a curse. They illustrate all the glorious adventure to be had in the realms, but their main characters have to be special snowflakes to be interesting. Erevis Cale is not just a cleric of Mask, he is the first chosen of Mask, a shade and wields Waveshearer. This is necessary to drive interest in a novel but it builds up certain perceptions of the way adventurers in FR should be.

As long as there are novels created for FR that are considered canon there is no escaping having larger than life NPCs. The novels rake in more money than the game products do so I do not think they are going anywhere. The reduction/redaction of some major NPCs will be a temporary measure new super NPCs will fill the void with every novel published. It is inevitable.

Again, all this can be assuaged by DMs being aware of their players perceptions. Be mindful of keeping their PCs special, not by making them Chosen but by using character driven plots like the novel or by making them seem like the baddest MFs on the block.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

"Elminster, help! The yuan-ti are on the march!"
"lol quest is gray to me"
"But they're sacking Waterdeep!"
"no xp, an lewt sux. grindin pit fiends."
"They're devouring babies like popcorn! Please, we need your help!"
[Elminster] is ignoring you.

Man, imagine if it was like getting someone to help you rush Diablo 2.

NPC:"Sir Reginald, goblins have constructed a fortress up the road and are robbing passing merchants!"
PC:"Don't worry, I know some guys."
*BAMF!*
[Mordenkainen] and [Elminster] have joined the party.
Elminster: Meteor Swarm'd. Twice, because I can.
Mordenkainen: Portal's up to Mystra. We're doing another run on her, right?

 

[Cadfan]

Just think of them like police.

Imagine if we made an RPG set in modern day America. Not post apocalyptic America, not America + Vampires, just... the USA.

So there's a mugger mugging a guy in muggsville alley! What do you do!

Player 1: "I dial 911."
Player 2: "I snap a picture of the mugger with my camera phone."
Player 3: "I hyperventilate."
Police Officer: *sirens wail, tires screech*
Police Officer: "Which way did he go?"
Player 4: *points*
Police Officer: *runs off after mugger*
Police Officer: *returns with mugger in handcuffs*
Police Officer: "I'll need to get witness statements from you four."
Party: "Of course, sir."
DM: Everyone levels up!

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Because they've outleveled that purse-snatcher, duh.

And man... if Elminster et al actually behaved like jaded MMORPG players, that would explain a lot.

"Elminster, help! The yuan-ti are on the march!"
"lol quest is gray to me"
"But they're sacking Waterdeep!"
"no xp, an lewt sux. grindin pit fiends."
"They're devouring babies like popcorn! Please, we need your help!"
[Elminster] is ignoring you.

This is the most plausible explanation I've seen on this topic.

 

[frankthedm]

And man... if Elminster et al actually behaved like jaded MMORPG players, that would explain a lot.

"Elminster, help! The yuan-ti are on the march!"
"lol quest is gray to me"
"But they're sacking Waterdeep!"
"no xp, an lewt sux. grindin pit fiends."
"They're devouring babies like popcorn! Please, we need your help!"
[Elminster] is ignoring you.

That is *quite* in character for the callously neutral greyhawk archmages.

 

[Barastrondo]

If the PCs also save the day, what heroes do they interact with?

Peers. For many, that's much more interesting than always interacting with people who are your perpetual superiors.

Who do they aspire to be if they are always the most powerful around?

Themselves, I would figure: if Dave is playing Bronzino the Bombastic, he probably aspires to having Bronzino the Bombastic being the name on everyone's lips when they think of the most powerful wizard around. Why aspire to being somebody else's character? I think many players would get a lot more enjoyment from lower-level adventurers aspiring to be them.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

And also.... Is it bad to not be the number one, really?

I means, isn't a lesson of LOTR and other perenial works that the little, the small ones, etc... They can make actually a difference and be important?

It's how it could be. Your players may not reach such great heights... but they still MATTERS.

 

[Brewhammer]

Because they've outleveled that purse-snatcher, duh.
"Elminster, help! The yuan-ti are on the march!"
"lol quest is gray to me"
"But they're sacking Waterdeep!"
"no xp, an lewt sux. grindin pit fiends."
"They're devouring babies like popcorn! Please, we need your help!"
[Elminster] is ignoring you.

It's funny cause it's true.

 

[Brian Compton]

The implication is that FR setting fans are not reasonable. I've never been in a FR game, so I don't know if its true or not.

FR fans can be very reasonable, but like fans of all settings and worlds, there are those who aren't. The minute the DM deviates from what they see as "their" FR, they complain or "correct" the DM. I have seen it happen, and I can understand why there are DM's who see it as more of a headache to run FR than a joy. But the stereotypical "annoying fanboy or fangirl" is the exception, not the rule.

As far as I'm concerned, the FR campaign setting itself isn't canon. The DM is free to do what he likes with it.

Mostly. It would be fair of the DM to say up-front if his game is a true FR game and what that means for him or her (like, whether or not the novels mean squat), or if it's his or her own game with things mined from FR. Then someone looking for a true FR game knows sort of what to expect.

I think a lot of problems would be avoided if the DM explained his position at the start of the campaign. The FR fan who wants everything to be consistent with the novels can then decide whether to play in the game or not, instead of being disappointed later.

This is also true to a point. Again, excepting the FR "geeks" (and I use that term lovingly ), most players don't know every single thing that's ever happened everywhere in Faerun, so deviating from established history or events isn't the issue. Where many players get nit-picky or disappointed is when a character comes on stage that they've built up in their mind a certain way...and the DM doesn't evoke that image. Take Elminster- Ed's written him a certain way, and some people want "Ed's Elminster," not just Elminster. It's like Darth Vader in a Star Wars game- players envision that character as portrayed in the films, and if the DM's Vader doesn't seem like that, it isn't Vader. This is everything from gestures to word choice to presence. And being a subjective thing, it's impossible for any one DM to satisfy every single player's vision of a character. Well-mannered players just keep their opinions to themselves. Others...they get shown the door where I come from.

Be that as it may, it's not a reason to wipe out a lot of major characters or say that FR is inundated with them. The cause does not support the result.