D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Eyes of Nine]

There was some supplements (DM Guild?) that made Feats point buys, based upon tiers I think. This would help with bespoke choice but would require a Chargen overhaul such that it becomes point based.

Yes, exactly why I don't go with an all feats game - the Chargen overhaul feels like too much work... And then a layer of points buy - even further work.

 

[Minigiant]

I think you may be conflating wanting crunchiness/complexity and being a veteran of the game. Many veterans prefer mechanically simple systems, albeit also systems that leave space for DM adjustments and homebrew. It's more that some players (new or long term) enjoy the character-building minigame and customization through feats and others do not.

Some veterans want complexity. Some veterans want simplicity.

My point is newbies tend to accept and not complain. Once they play a bunch, they start to voice their desires.

5e is 8 years old. A newbie from 2016 is now 6 years in. He or she will voice complaints now.

 

[Hussar]

Some veterans want complexity. Some veterans want simplicity.


My point is newbies tend to accept and not complain. Oncee they play a bunch, they start to voice their desires.

5e is 8 years old. A newbie from 2016 is now 6 years in. He or she will voice complaints now.

Heh, it's hard to believe that someone who started with 5e isn't really a newbie anymore. You can't call someone who's been playing for six years a newbie. Heck, that's longer than many editions have lasted. Such a very different experience entering the hobby than what I did all those years ago. I mean, heck, in the first six years that I started playing, I went from Moldvay Basic/Expert, to AD&D to being a year or so short of starting 2e.

Meanwhile, that 6 year 5e player doesn't even really have a new edition on the horizon - the 2024 rerelease is certainly going to be a lot less drastic of a change than 1e to 2e. Never minding 2e to 3e or 3e to 4e.

Not sure I have a point here. Just musing.

 

[Oofta]

Some veterans want complexity. Some veterans want simplicity.


My point is newbies tend to accept and not complain. Oncee they play a bunch, they start to voice their desires.

5e is 8 years old. A newbie from 2016 is now 6 years in. He or she will voice complaints now.

So? Some people will play for a while and decide to look elsewhere for a variety of reasons. Others will continue playing because they like the game. Still others will pick up the game.

I don't see any indication of people getting tired of the game or of it's growth slowing, although eventually it will plateau simply because of market saturation.

Some people will complain and look for options which, seems to me, are fairly plentiful. They just aren't published by WOTC.

 

[edosan]

Some veterans want complexity. Some veterans want simplicity.

I find it telling that for every “5e doesn’t given me enough impactful character choices to make an interesting builds” there is a “I am going back to B/X with its more streamlined play”

it depends what you want out of the game, some people like strategizing over builds, some do not. By splitting the difference in 5e, they brought in some people but alienated others.

 

[Hussar]

So? Some people will play for a while and decide to look elsewhere for a variety of reasons. Others will continue playing because they like the game. Still others will pick up the game.

I don't see any indication of people getting tired of the game or of it's growth slowing, although eventually it will plateau simply because of market saturation.

Some people will complain and look for options which, seems to me, are fairly plentiful. They just aren't published by WOTC.

While I do wish that some of the options would be incorporated into the base game (warlords, I'm looking at you), I've largely resigned myself to the fact that WotC is just not going to do it.

So, sure, I could bitch and complain until I'm blue in the face, or, I could suck it up and go looking for fixes. It's like the current push towards simplicity. I'll admit, I'm very much in favor of it. I think it's a very productive direction for the game to go. I can understand why some people don't like it. Fair enough. But, again, like you say @Oofta, if you want greater complexity in the game, it's not like you aren't being served. Level Up is right there.

There does become a point where legitimate criticisms become just a never ending drone of the same six people banging the same drum over and over again and I just tune it out. Psionics? Yeah, sorry, it's not going to happen because there's just no real consensus for what psionics in the game will look like. But, every six-eight months, we'll have another round of Psionics wank that retread the same arguments over and over again. At some point it's just healthier to let it go.

 

[Hussar]

I find it telling that for every “5e doesn’t given me enough impactful character choices to make an interesting builds” there is a “I am going back to B/X with its more streamlined play”

it depends what you want out of the game, some people like strategizing over builds, some do not. By splitting the difference in 5e, they brought in some people but alienated others.

That's basically the point. WotC is on record for the ... 75% mark? Is that the right number? A new idea gets the green light if they get a 75% overall approval from the fandom when they ask for feedback. I think that's the benchmark.

Well, that still means that there's a 25% of the fandom that doesn't like whatever that new thing is. And 25% is a very large number of people who can be very loud, even if they are only a smallish minority of the hobby as a whole.

So, yeah, it's totally understandable that you would have completely opposite reactions (MOAR COMPLEXITY! LESS FILLING!) in roughly equal amounts.

 

[Minigiant]

Heh, it's hard to believe that someone who started with 5e isn't really a newbie anymore. You can't call someone who's been playing for six years a newbie. Heck, that's longer than many editions have lasted. Such a very different experience entering the hobby than what I did all those years ago. I mean, heck, in the first six years that I started playing, I went from Moldvay Basic/Expert, to AD&D to being a year or so short of starting 2e.

Meanwhile, that 6 year 5e player doesn't even really have a new edition on the horizon - the 2024 rerelease is certainly going to be a lot less drastic of a change than 1e to 2e. Never minding 2e to 3e or 3e to 4e.

Not sure I have a point here. Just musing.

Yeah. 5e is so old. A player who was given a premade PC in 2015 or 2016 might have run a few PCs by now. And there is a chance the player was deep in the D&D YouTube and Twitter where people convert all kinds of IP.

 

[Minigiant]

So? Some people will play for a while and decide to look elsewhere for a variety of reasons. Others will continue playing because they like the game. Still others will pick up the game.

I don't see any indication of people getting tired of the game or of it's growth slowing, although eventually it will plateau simply because of market saturation.

Some people will complain and look for options which, seems to me, are fairly plentiful. They just aren't published by WOTC

You won't see people being bored of 5e based on the core books. Players would buy PHBs and DMGs way before they become vets.

But at the splatbook and setting books discussions. Plenty of complaining.

 

[DND_Reborn]

WotC is on record for the ... 75% mark?

I think it is only 60% IIRC, but I could be wrong.

I believe what they look for is:

• 3 - for
• 1 - neutral
• 1 - against (at worse)

I looked into this when I started 5E over 4 years ago because the concept came up, but I doubt I can find the source at this point.

Either way, if they are only getting 20-25% "against", that is pretty good in my book.

I accepted about two years ago WotC won't take D&D in the direction I would prefer, and so I am adrift at sea, as it were...