Presumably it's also healthier to let go of confronting said complainers in every thread too?
D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?
- Thread starter DND_Reborn
- Start date
Hussar
Legend
Fair enough.
I prefer points buy like Savage Worlds, Unisystem, or Lords of Gossamer. It makes it all simpler and evenly balanced.
I think you have to assume a level of IC competence of characters profession wise, such that you can remove a l arge number of feats. It is ludicrous for example for a fighter to need a disarm feat, and does the class a disservice.
Hussar
Legend
But, you've never needed a disarm feat in D&D. You could always try to disarm. In AD&D, it was pretty much entirely ad hoc DM fiat, because there weren't any rules for it at all. In 3e and later, you can always make a disarm attempt. The feats just make you better at it.
I might be thinking of Savage Worlds.
Frozen_Heart
Hero
I really dislike how few classes 5e has, with quite a few concepts having to be gutted in order to fit as subclasses and not be overtuned.
Sure the 3.5e system was even worse, and hundreds of classes was just awful, but the current system is leading to hundreds of subclasses of content bloat while failing to add meaningful content at the same time.
It's definitely my largest dislike about 5e.
Sure the 3.5e system was even worse, and hundreds of classes was just awful, but the current system is leading to hundreds of subclasses of content bloat while failing to add meaningful content at the same time.
It's definitely my largest dislike about 5e.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
I think subclasses were designed too simply. Like, 5 abilities over 20 levels, with some being, in effect, ribbons? Meh. Some even feel like Feats, and I wonder if that's how subclass features got their start, as some kind of feat chain.
For those who want wotc to release more options for more customization: how do you deal with bloat and cognitive load? And do other games (e.g. pathfinder 2e) not have this problem, or does that game just appeal to people who can manage more active things at once.
For example, for the one 5e game that I'm in, I was thinking of playing a college of creation bard, but then I read it and realized it was just too much. For example, the mote of potential provides additional effects based on how it is used. In fact, if it is used for a saving throw it provides another effect on top of that:
So now your fellow player has to keep track of the bardic inspiration, at a particular die size, pay attention to the variable effects depending on what type of roll they are making, and then remember to add the temporary hp that have a bonus equal to the cha modifier of a different PC. If everyone is really proficient with the game and paying attention, this might not take so long, but there are many "fail" points in there that cause extra time per round (rule or stat lookups, reminders to use something, action economy). At 6th level, the same bardic bonus actions can be used to control their summoned flying weapon, which has this feature:
So you send the dancing weapon into battle and now all of a sudden a handful of creatures have either increased or decreased movement rates for the next turn. More tracking!
Is this what people want? Do you find this adds friction and lengthens combat time at your table? The recent UA struck me as full of stuff like this. It seems the designers have been trying to maximize the action economy (providing more uses for bonus actions and reactions) and utilize the "design space" of things that are somewhat peripheral to the core game, like temporary hit points.
I don't think it's about being veterans of the game or not. My table is half people who have been playing for the entirety of 5e, and the other half people have been playing since AD&D. But we play for only two hours a week, in the evening, after kids have gone to sleep, and we have no energy for those types of options.
For example, for the one 5e game that I'm in, I was thinking of playing a college of creation bard, but then I read it and realized it was just too much. For example, the mote of potential provides additional effects based on how it is used. In fact, if it is used for a saving throw it provides another effect on top of that:
So now your fellow player has to keep track of the bardic inspiration, at a particular die size, pay attention to the variable effects depending on what type of roll they are making, and then remember to add the temporary hp that have a bonus equal to the cha modifier of a different PC. If everyone is really proficient with the game and paying attention, this might not take so long, but there are many "fail" points in there that cause extra time per round (rule or stat lookups, reminders to use something, action economy). At 6th level, the same bardic bonus actions can be used to control their summoned flying weapon, which has this feature:
So you send the dancing weapon into battle and now all of a sudden a handful of creatures have either increased or decreased movement rates for the next turn. More tracking!
Is this what people want? Do you find this adds friction and lengthens combat time at your table? The recent UA struck me as full of stuff like this. It seems the designers have been trying to maximize the action economy (providing more uses for bonus actions and reactions) and utilize the "design space" of things that are somewhat peripheral to the core game, like temporary hit points.
I don't think it's about being veterans of the game or not. My table is half people who have been playing for the entirety of 5e, and the other half people have been playing since AD&D. But we play for only two hours a week, in the evening, after kids have gone to sleep, and we have no energy for those types of options.
Jack Daniel
Legend
(Hm. Long thread.)
My only real problem with 5e is that it stops feeling and playing like D&D above about 4th level. Monsters become bags of hit points, swords become nerf bats, and spells become strongly worded suggestions. A typical spell that could end an encounter in an earlier edition comes off in 5e feeling like Power Word: I Implore You To Reconsider.
My only real problem with 5e is that it stops feeling and playing like D&D above about 4th level. Monsters become bags of hit points, swords become nerf bats, and spells become strongly worded suggestions. A typical spell that could end an encounter in an earlier edition comes off in 5e feeling like Power Word: I Implore You To Reconsider.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
I'm not sure there should be more classes (maybe a few. 15 or 16 tops). BUT, I do think that subclasses should take more of the design space from the class.
This is not likely to happen in 2024, though. They may "fix" some class features but I doubt they will overhaul how classes are built.
