D&D 5E What if no stat increases; only feats?

[Quartz]

The PHB gives feats as an option instead of ASIs. Has anyone done any work on replacing ASIs entirely with feats? Not only during levelling but also at character generation?

Instead of the starting stat bonuses, humans might get 2 free feats; elves might be able to choose one from a restricted set like Alert, Observant, and Sharpshooter; dwarves one from Tough, Durable, and Dungeon Dweller; halflings from Lucky or Sharpshooter; half orcs one from Tough, Tavern Brawler, and Savage Attacker; etc.

ISTM this would make for a lower-power, older-school, game. There would no longer be the rush to get the magic 20 in a stat. If players still want stat increases you can always make them earn it by putting them through the Temple of Tharizdun or similar. And it would make items like the Gauntlet of Ogre Power the wonders they once were.

Unfortunately I wasn't a playtester and do not currently game, so I have no practical experience of my suggestion. Have you?

 

[fba827]

Just to be clear you're proposing two things.
1) everyone gets a bonus feat at char gen from a small list based on race
2) everyone gets a feat instead of ability boosts

That's a clear and simple house rule ( as opposed to a house rule that would be too complex to implement at the table) though my one concern would be with the variety of defeats they are available. Things that will feel of interest to certain character types will run short quickly while other classes and character types have plenty. But that's just my gut reaction. Haven't actually tried anything like that.

 

[Quartz]

Just to be clear you're proposing two things.
1) everyone gets a bonus feat at char gen from a small list based on race

Yes, instead of the stat bonuses.

2) everyone gets a feat instead of ability boosts

Yes.

 

[Paraxis]

A few things I can think of.

• Rolled ability scores become the only way to go, who wants to be stuck with a 15
• Fighters quickly run out of feats to take that they would use.
• Magic items that set your ability score to a 19 are now even more amazing.

 

[Fion]

It's a keen idea, I can see it being both positive and negative. On the positive side there's no more worry about some races simply not being efficient with certainly builds, like a High Elf Great-Weapon Fighter. Might make an interesting concept but with Standard Array it's going to be weak(er) out the gate.

I can see where FBA827 is coming from, that some character types would run short on interesting feats, but by the same token there are plenty of feats that are only of interest at the moment for niche players. I mean how many people would take Keen Mind if they use the Standard Array. Assuming they pick a race that matches their class archetype, they at most will have room for 2 Feats if they also want to take their primary and secondary stat to 20. If they never had to worry about stat increases, Keen Mind suddenly becomes fairly interesting and flavorful, especially for RPers. Fighters will run out quicker, so perhaps adjust their bonus feats to do something else, or add more feats (there are certainly a number of fan made ones already on this very website).

By the other side of the coin, feats that increase ability scores will far and away become superior. This could be countered with magical items that grant +1-3 to an ability score. Belts of Giant's Strength, Headband's of Intellect, etc.

It's a very keen idea, one I would seriously consider adopting. But at the same time I'm not sure how it might pan out at higher levels, or how it might necessitate changes to monsters, though with Bounded Accuracy this is less a possible issue.

 

[TwoSix]

ISTM this would make for a lower-power, older-school, game. There would no longer be the rush to get the magic 20 in a stat. If players still want stat increases you can always make them earn it by putting them through the Temple of Tharizdun or similar. And it would make items like the Gauntlet of Ogre Power the wonders they once were.

To clarify, do you want to make the change because you don't want players to have 20s, or because you don't want them to bypass feats because they're rushing to get 20s? I'd suggest differing house rules based on what your intent is.

 

[Quartz]

A few things I can think of.

[*]Rolled ability scores become the only way to go, who wants to be stuck with a 15

You could take a feat which increases that stat.

[*]Fighters quickly run out of feats to take that they would use.

I don't think so. Even Fighters won't get that many feats. And new feats can be created.

[*]Magic items that set your ability score to a 19 are now even more amazing.

Yes.

To clarify, do you want to make the change because you don't want players to have 20s, or because you don't want them to bypass feats because they're rushing to get 20s?

Neither. I am interested in the possibility that feats-only might make for a more interesting game. As I said, I don't currently play. That said, I do foresee a rush to get a 20 in the prime stat, and I do foresee that module designers will design modules that assume every PC has a 20 in their prime stat, and - at high levels - in both their prime stats.

 

[Wrathamon]

I like having no stat bumps

I think every melee character being stronger than ogres is a bit silly.

any item that grants a 19 or higher strength are legendary items; not common things that you find at Magic shoppe

 

[Nellisir]

A lot of feats include a smaller stat bump as one of their features, so you're slowing down stat-boosting, not eliminating it. That said, I don't have an issue with the idea. I'm not sure the group would really be "low-power", since they'd have more abilities to compensate for the (slightly) lower attributes, but they'd be a little bit more diverse in their abilities.

If you really want to power down, just don't use feats OR ability boosts. I don't think you'll break anything.

 

[Theovis]

Just flat-out too many feats, IMO. I feel they are not for everyone at all, let alone for everyone all the time. Feat-flood will NOT give you that old-school feel.

If you want more old-school stats, might be better just pulling most or all of the ability score upgrades (not counting the "bonus" ones that Fighters and rogues get, and you could even force them to take feats).

Or leave progression as is but do something like 3D6, arrange to taste, or 4d6(keep 3) in order. Or 3d6 in order if you really hate competant player characters.

[*]Fighters quickly run out of feats to take that they would use.
I don't think so. Even Fighters won't get that many feats. And new feats can be created.

No, they would just un out of feats that are worth taking.