D&D 5E What is +1 Strength worth?

[James Gasik]

The answer to that question is 1 out of every 20 attacks. Combats in my experience typically last 3-5 rounds, so I've been calling them at 4 rounds. That's one miss turned into a hit every 5 combats until you reach extra attack. Then it's one miss turned into a hit every 2.5 combats. This is a really low amount of damage added. Then you have say 11 other hits that are all getting +1 damage, but those hits are also spread out over those combats, which also amounts to next to no extra damage per fight.

When you're in a fight with a group of PCs all doing damage against a group of enemies, that 2 extra damage a fight and one extra hit every 2.5 to 5 fights just isn't going to be noticeable.

Fights don't happen in aggregate, though. They happen individually. So yes, over 20 levels you are looking at hundreds of extra points of damage, and that was all in a fight or two the fighter would be kicking some serious ass. However, each individual fight isn't even going to notice the minute amounts of extra damage being inflicted. So while the aggregate damage over time and the percentage increase both seem very impressive, the reality is that the damage increase is trivial. It just doesn't affect things more than once in a blue moon.

Isn't an extra attack every 2.5 combats equal to Action Surge?

 

[Maxperson]

Isn't an extra attack every 2.5 combats equal to Action Surge?

No. It's an extra HIT every 2.5 combats. Not an extra attack. The Extra Attack class ability just shortens the time needed to get that extra hit in from 5 fights to 2.5 fights. Action surge gives you another round of actions. Assuming you use it to attack, it would just shorten the number of fights needed from 2.5 fights to 2.25 fights. It's an improvement, but that's still only one extra hit in 2.25 entire fights that probably have multiple enemies in them. It's not going to do much.

 

[Fenris-77]

Ok, so without having read the math, the fact that your exemplars are Starsky and Hutch is full of win.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

Shout out for that last bit of carrying capacity to let you pick up that one piece of loot you didn't want to leave behind.

 

[James Gasik]

No. It's an extra HIT every 2.5 combats. Not an extra attack. The Extra Attack class ability just shortens the time needed to get that extra hit in from 5 fights to 2.5 fights. Action surge gives you another round of actions. Assuming you use it to attack, it would just shorten the number of fights needed from 2.5 fights to 2.25 fights. It's an improvement, but that's still only one extra hit in 2.25 entire fights that probably have multiple enemies in them. It's not going to do much.

I suppose so. Still, if you told me 16 Strength gives me an extra attack that hits every 2.5 fights, I'd be cool with that. It'd be better if I could choose when it happens, of course.

 

[Maxperson]

I suppose so. Still, if you told me 16 Strength gives me an extra attack that hits every 2.5 fights, I'd be cool with that. It'd be better if I could choose when it happens, of course.

That extra hit is going to be worth 7.5 damage on a d8 and 9.5 damage with a d12. I'd much rather put that +1 into int, wis or cha. Knowledge skills, social skills, perception and insight can shift the course of a campaign and have much farther reaching impact much more often. Killing 1 bugbear out of 10 faster every few fights? Not so much.

 

[Lyxen]

Well you don't even have to spend all your time fighting. How many combat rounds do you see before you hit a benchmark like 4th level where you can "catch up"? People taut the "6-8 encounters per diem" a lot, so how many combat rounds does 7 combats require?

And again, please read the rules, the 6-8 encounters is NOT a benchmark. And not all your XPs are gained fighting, assuming that you even use XPs, there are things called milestones for example.

I am not willing to look at the DMG to figure out how many combats it takes to go up 3 levels, but i'm going to assume it's quite a lot.

And then, at our tables, it might be just 3 combats, of a few rounds each. Certainly not enough for the law of great numbers to mean anything compared to situations, gear, tactics, and luck. And in any case, what's the point ? Will you have two identical fighters in your party to compare ? So who cares, exactly ?

 

[James Gasik]

Except, well, you need to put the +1 there if you want the next +2 to matter, right? Actually that opens up a side discussion.

20 in an attribute. Is it worth it?

 

[James Gasik]

And again, please read the rules, the 6-8 encounters is NOT a benchmark. And not all your XPs are gained fighting, assuming that you even use XPs, there are things called milestones for example.



And then, at our tables, it might be just 3 combats, of a few rounds each. Certainly not enough for the law of great numbers to mean anything compared to situations, gear, tactics, and luck. And in any case, what's the point ? Will you have two identical fighters in your party to compare ? So who cares, exactly ?

Ok now, I fully agree on this point. I really do. Unfortunately, in most discussions about the game's mechanics I've had on this forum, attempting to say "but people can play the game differently" has gotten me nowhere in debates. I have mostly played in AL or home games. I have no experience with the 6-8 combat metric.

But if I say "well, in this scenario, X is Y and Y is Z", I get almost invariably an off-handed comment that basically says "then you're not playing the game correctly and your points are invalid". So I'm trying to look at how apparently, many other posters play the game. I mean, otherwise, we're all talking past each other and debate is irrelevant?

 

[Lyxen]

Ok now, I fully agree on this point. I really do. Unfortunately, in most discussions about the game's mechanics I've had on this forum, attempting to say "but people can play the game differently" has gotten me nowhere in debates. I have mostly played in AL or home games. I have no experience with the 6-8 combat metric.

But if I say "well, in this scenario, X is Y and Y is Z", I get almost invariably an off-handed comment that basically says "then you're not playing the game correctly and your points are invalid". So I'm trying to look at how apparently, many other posters play the game. I mean, otherwise, we're all talking past each other and debate is irrelevant?

And this is why I found your initial computations interesting in terms of impact, if you are looking at the purely mechanical effect. Whether it's actually relevant to games being played is that part that I dispute, though.