D&D (2024) What is a warlock/sorcerer without a starting patron/origin?

[Henadic Theologian]

It does screw up the flavour, the choice should be at level 1.

 

[Charlaquin]

I could see swapping the levels of pact boon and patron. At 1st level, your character discovers a powerful artifact - an enchanted blade, a tome of forbidden lore, or a leash that magically binds an imp or other powerful familiar. At that point, they know it’s powerful but might not realize its full significance, and in fact, the patron is likely holding back, only giving the character a small fraction of its power. That power grows somewhat at second level, but it’s not until third level that the patron reveals itself. The player may or may not be choosing the subclass at that time out-of-game, but in the fiction, whatever they pick, that was the patron all along.

Alternatively, keep patron and boon at the same levels, but reduce the impact of patron to be mostly flavor and maybe a minor feature; make pact boon the actual subclass. Personally, I like the former option better.

 

[Li Shenron]

Sorcerer: doesn't know why they have special powers until level 3.

Warlock: knows, but isn't telling anybody until level 3.

 

[CreamCloud0]

If classes which currently start with their subclass at first level, such as warlocks, wizards and sorcerers, have their subclass choice moved to third, what would theses classes even look like their first couple of levels?

Wizards are pretty easy, as one who hasn’t specialized yet is still a recognizable student of the arcane arts.

But what about a warlock? If the idea is to remove the “blocker” of extra choices like cleric domains from initial character creation, the. What does that mean for selecting a patron? One could argue a warlock’s patron is a more mechanically important decision than a cleric’s deity, since their domain subclass choice can be selected independently of their deity, since one deity can have multiple domains. But choice of a patron dictates a warlock’s powers directly, closely followed by Pact selection.

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Same for a sorcerer. Their subclass is literally called “sorcerous origin”. What exactly is such a character that hasn’t selected their origin until third level?

Thoughts on how WotC might approach this issue if they stick to starting all subclasses starting at third level?

You are still a warlock/sorcerer, you still have your magical patron/bloodline, your connection to them just isn’t strong enough yet for you to of determined what exactly they are yet but you know you’ve got a connection to something.
Edit: in a similar vein clerics and paladins get the entry level package all clerics/paladins get before the specifics of their deity/oath start kicking in.

 

[shadowoflameth]

If classes which currently start with their subclass at first level, such as warlocks, wizards and sorcerers, have their subclass choice moved to third, what would theses classes even look like their first couple of levels?

Wizards are pretty easy, as one who hasn’t specialized yet is still a recognizable student of the arcane arts.

But what about a warlock? If the idea is to remove the “blocker” of extra choices like cleric domains from initial character creation, the. What does that mean for selecting a patron? One could argue a warlock’s patron is a more mechanically important decision than a cleric’s deity, since their domain subclass choice can be selected independently of their deity, since one deity can have multiple domains. But choice of a patron dictates a warlock’s powers directly, closely followed by Pact selection.

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Same for a sorcerer. Their subclass is literally called “sorcerous origin”. What exactly is such a character that hasn’t selected their origin until third level?

Thoughts on how WotC might approach this issue if they stick to starting all subclasses starting at third level?

You choose your patron at 1st but your pact at 3rd in 5E. They don't need to change that, but maybe change what you get with your patron in some cases to coming at 3rd. As an example, with the Hexblade instead of Hexblade's Curse it could be moved to 3rd level.

 

[Clint_L]

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Someone who might be in for a nasty surprise when they learn where those powerful "gifts" have been coming from.

This is a fun choice for players to make when they hit level 3. Has this character been unwittingly tapping into the power of a dark entity from beyond time and space? Or have they been unknowingly proving their worth to a powerful fey? Or is their weapon itself a sentient being?

 

[Tonguez]

Yeah, but what power? Do you still have to choose a patron or origin at first level? If so, then that defeats the purpose of pushing all subclasses to third level to simplify creating a new character.

x-men, as level 1 teenagers they start to manifest strange abilities that freak out their parents/neighbours, then they get visited and invited to join Xaviers School (level 2), Prof X then probes their psyche and indentifies the Origin or Patron Entity empowering them (level 3)

 

[Vaalingrade]

Considering the 0 levels are only there to last like two sessions, it's probably just going to be on the player to pretend until Session 3 where they can start playing their character, or on the DM to realize level 3 is the new level 1 and 1-2 are 0-levels for use with newbies you hate and preludes only.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Considering the 0 levels are only there to last like two sessions, it's probably just going to be on the player to pretend until Session 3 where they can start playing their character, or on the DM to realize level 3 is the new level 1 and 1-2 are 0-levels for use with newbies you hate and preludes only.

Or even have the player not pretend - but the starter set they get from their patron is the same starter set all warlocks get.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Or even have the player not pretend - but the starter set they get from their patron is the same starter set all warlocks get.

Kind of weird that the devil gives the same powers as an angel, gives the same powers as a weird sword, gives the same powers as Lovecraft's sloppy seconds.