D&D (2024) What is a warlock/sorcerer without a starting patron/origin?

Kind of weird that the devil gives the same powers as an angel, gives the same powers as a weird sword, gives the same powers as Lovecraft's sloppy seconds.
They don't - they give you the same powers at level 1. In other words the ability to cast one spell per short rest (which might be different) and an unlocked Eldritch Blast. Opening your magic up is common. At level 2 they then give you a Pact Boon - and this won't necessarily be the same. And only by level 3 do they actually change you.

The thing that's in common is the "Ye'r a wizard ... sucker" starter. And even then the spells aren't the same.
 

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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Kind of weird that the devil gives the same powers as an angel, gives the same powers as a weird sword, gives the same powers as Lovecraft's sloppy seconds.
Not really, the mortal flesh and mind can only do so much and so all mortals manifest the same trauma until their body and psyche adapts
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
If classes which currently start with their subclass at first level, such as warlocks, wizards and sorcerers, have their subclass choice moved to third, what would theses classes even look like their first couple of levels?

Wizards are pretty easy, as one who hasn’t specialized yet is still a recognizable student of the arcane arts.

But what about a warlock? If the idea is to remove the “blocker” of extra choices like cleric domains from initial character creation, the. What does that mean for selecting a patron? One could argue a warlock’s patron is a more mechanically important decision than a cleric’s deity, since their domain subclass choice can be selected independently of their deity, since one deity can have multiple domains. But choice of a patron dictates a warlock’s powers directly, closely followed by Pact selection.

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Same for a sorcerer. Their subclass is literally called “sorcerous origin”. What exactly is such a character that hasn’t selected their origin until third level?

Thoughts on how WotC might approach this issue if they stick to starting all subclasses starting at third level?
I think I prefer it for the warlock, and I think it probably improves the sorcerer, as well.

For the warlock, this means that the warlock is actually doing magic stuff before they get their big patron power boost or whatever, and it frees up the flavor a bit. I can more satisfyingly make warlocks who are ritual magicians first, and who eventually use that knowledge and skill to gain power through rituals of invocation with an otherworldly being.
Pact Boon and Otherworldly Patron are being swapped.
  1. Eldritch Cantrip, Pact Boon (Blade, Chain, or Tome), Pact Magic
  2. Eldritch Invocation
  3. Otherworldly Patron
A patron isn't giving a warlock a link to themselves until they prove themselves anymore. You area generic warlock until the patron thinks you are worthy of their true power.
or any number of other stories
Same with Sorcerer.
You are generic sorcerer until you tap into more of your power. As you grow, your origin shows.
which is a more common story, I think.
They don't know what they've committed to, yet. They just wanted the power offered. At level three they discover their connection to...
Eh. As long as they don't try to push that narrative as the default.
This also helps create the "dip" story of turning away from temptation before it was too late, but still knowing a thing or two.
Absolutely.
It does screw up the flavour, the choice should be at level 1.
Not really. It fits just as well.
 

I think I prefer it for the warlock, and I think it probably improves the sorcerer, as well.

For the warlock, this means that the warlock is actually doing magic stuff before they get their big patron power boost or whatever, and it frees up the flavor a bit. I can more satisfyingly make warlocks who are ritual magicians first, and who eventually use that knowledge and skill to gain power through rituals of invocation with an otherworldly being.

or any number of other stories

which is a more common story, I think.

Eh. As long as they don't try to push that narrative as the default.

Absolutely.

Not really. It fits just as well.

That would explain HOW a Warlock gains access to a Patron if they at least a bit of a Magician in the first place, just some basic magic.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
That would explain HOW a Warlock gains access to a Patron if they at least a bit of a Magician in the first place, just some basic magic.
Right, and anyone who prefers the (imo terrible as game lore) story of the warlock getting every little bit of power from the patron directly like a power line to a house, can just say that the warlock just gets spells and a boon at the start, and has to grow into the rest of their power.
 


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