D&D (2024) What is a warlock/sorcerer without a starting patron/origin?

[Lojaan]

Pretty easily:

Sorcerer: 1st mysterious power coming from within. Begin with spellcasting, font of magic and metamagic.
3rd level -> Awakening (you discover the true source of you powers).

Warlock: Begins dealing with a shadowy, hidden, unfathomable power. Spellcasting + Invocations.
3rd level -> Revelation (the true nature of your patron is revealed, as well as the extent of your debt...)

I like both of these. Sorcerers find the source of their power at level 3. Warlocks seal their bargain at level 3 and afterwards learn the true nature of their patron. <Maniacal laugh>.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Pretty easily:

Sorcerer: 1st mysterious power coming from within. Begin with spellcasting, font of magic and metamagic.
3rd level -> Awakening (you discover the true source of you powers).

Warlock: Begins dealing with a shadowy, hidden, unfathomable power. Spellcasting + Invocations.
3rd level -> Revelation (the true nature of your patron is revealed, as well as the extent of your debt...)

Let's be honest, in most stories, these kind of characters dont start in the first chapter knowing their full origin or the identity of the mysterious benefactor.

Both good. And even if you do know that's no reason you should have more than the generic starter pack at level 1. Especially if you thought you were bargaining with a celestial but it turns out to have been a fiend.

 

[Incenjucar]

This also helps create the "dip" story of turning away from temptation before it was too late, but still knowing a thing or two.

 

[Clint_L]

If classes which currently start with their subclass at first level, such as warlocks, wizards and sorcerers, have their subclass choice moved to third, what would theses classes even look like their first couple of levels?

Wizards are pretty easy, as one who hasn’t specialized yet is still a recognizable student of the arcane arts.

But what about a warlock? If the idea is to remove the “blocker” of extra choices like cleric domains from initial character creation, the. What does that mean for selecting a patron? One could argue a warlock’s patron is a more mechanically important decision than a cleric’s deity, since their domain subclass choice can be selected independently of their deity, since one deity can have multiple domains. But choice of a patron dictates a warlock’s powers directly, closely followed by Pact selection.

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Same for a sorcerer. Their subclass is literally called “sorcerous origin”. What exactly is such a character that hasn’t selected their origin until third level?

Thoughts on how WotC might approach this issue if they stick to starting all subclasses starting at third level?

Someone who hasn't yet learned the source of their power, or whose source hasn't fully manifested itself yet. To be honest, this seems like a pretty typical backstory for those classes: the warlock who has, perhaps even unconsciously, been gaining power from some entity, only to be confronted by the reality and have to make a choice. The sorcerer whose bloodline is having unpredictable effects until they finally learn why. Etc.

Edit: I like it a LOT better in terms of story for Warlocks, in particular. I would assume that some powerful Entity would only reveal itself fully once you had established your worthiness to some basic level.

 

[Charlaquin]

Pact Boon and Otherworldly Patron are being swapped.

1. Eldritch Cantrip, Pact Boon (Blade, Chain, or Tome), Pact Magic
2. Eldritch Invocation
3. Otherworldly Patron

A patron isn't giving a warlock a link to themselves until they prove themselves anymore. You area generic warlock until the patron thinks you are worthy of their true power.

Wow, I really like that!

 

[Lojaan]

Can't your patron be a dark mysterious figure for a bit then remove their hood and "Surprise! I'm the Devil! Mwahahaha!"

I think the first level ability will be changed to something like "Eldritch Pact". All Eldritch pack will do is give you Eldritch Blast cantrips.

At first level, you can name your patron or keep them as a hidden benefactor. Their specific style of pact doesn't come into play until level 3.

---

Same thing with the sorcerer. You might have been born with sorcery and one time you shot fire at the neighbor's cow. However when you train to become an actual true sorcerer you had to push down and bottle up most of your origin in order to control it. Not until you got to level 3, when you fully control of it, could you start digging back into your origin your draconic ancestor, an aberrant infection, inner wild magic, or a shadow taint.


In most stories, the warlock or sorcerer have to learn control first before they tap into true power. Those who quickly get into in a magic or granted powers tend to either explode or get mutated.

Screw that cow. It had it coming.

 

[Flamestrike]

If you dont pick who to make a pact with, till 3rd, a warlock shouldnt even have a power though, you have no deal, no bargain, nothing.

There is nothing stopping you picking an entity to make your pact with at 1st level. The only difference is zero mechanical differences till 3rd.

 

[Vael]

Sorcerers would probably get Sorcery Points at level 1, Metamagic at level 2 then.

It is ... odd, especially for those that insist that Sorcerers with different origins have vastly different spell lists and mechanics, but as long as the class doesn't feel like the neglected third of the Mage group, I'll be fine with it.

 

[Remathilis]

There is nothing stopping you picking an entity to make your pact with at 1st level. The only difference is zero mechanical differences till 3rd.

^^ THIS ^^

It's not like people don't read ahead and decide what subclass they are going to take. Some people will wait to decide at level 3 that they are now worshipping Selune, made a deal with Belial, or their granddaddy was a silver dragon, but the majority of players will decide at first level what their deity, oath, patron, or bloodline is before it comes with a mechanical benefit.

 

[Lojaan]

^^ THIS ^^

It's not like people don't read ahead and decide what subclass they are going to take. Some people will wait to decide at level 3 that they are now worshipping Selune, made a deal with Belial, or their granddaddy was a silver dragon, but the majority of players will decide at first level what their deity, oath, patron, or bloodline is before it comes with a mechanical benefit.

Good point. Paladins never had a problem and they didn't get their oath til LVL 3