D&D 5E What is balance to you, and why do you care (or don't)?

[Maxperson]

except if your concept isn't the class features normally you can make them multi ways...

Is Gandalf an Aasimar Wizard, or a Varriant Human Bard, or a custum linage divine soul sorcerer?

None of those. He's literally a full celestial with additional magical ability, including learned magic from other races.

D&D can't model him via PC classes. From the books we know he is a full celestial, learns magic from other races like D&D Wizards, but doesn't study magic from books or prepare spells daily and casts more like an unlimited Sorcerer. You'd have to create a special NPC stat block for him and abilities.

Is Aragon a human ranger, a half elf fighter/rogue, a deva warlord?

Again, none of those. He's more than human, since he has small strains of celestial blood and elven blood that give him special abilities, but not enough elven blood to be half-elven or enough celestial blood to be a deva.

He'd also need a special NPC block to cover what he is.

 

[Undrave]

I'm not the target audience but I like it

Thank you. I might just go and write it up more fully using the Homebrewery. I do feel I need a few more talents to fill out the level up process...

I was thinking of adding a 'Talent of Inspiration' or something that made your character a walking buff zone to your allies (i.e., it's up to the other players to remember you grant it not you ) but I couldn't find a simple way to do it. If 5e had a universal attacking system like 4e I could have just handed out +1 or +2.

Or maybe, I could simply have a few feature that say "your lowest ability score increases by 2"? Ending with a level 20 feature that's just "All your ability scores are now 20"? That feels like something simple but fitting?

 

[Maxperson]

Again you are assigning their statements as fact.

They exist and they prefer simple Fighters. That is a fact. Their reasons for doing so are subjective, but their reasons are not a part of this discussion. Only whether they exist or not, which is not debatable.

Regardless, you are putting them as higher priority and giving them an entire class, while also ruining those class for people like myself.

Yes. You having greater than 95%+ of the classes and subclasses is more than sufficient. When it comes to the remaining very small percentage, I am absolutely giving them a higher priority than you, because you would give then nothing at all. Wanting them to have nothing is pretty selfish.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Only whether they exist or not, which is not debatable.

i mean you can't prove these are real people. We are taking your word for it. Maybe you are here stiring up trouble having never played and RPG ever with a living being...

is that likely no, but yes some degree of that is debatable.

you have gone out of your way to 'prove' your point. Lieing about someone isn't unheard of. Then again Maybe I am lieing, maybe I never ran or played D&D. Maybe all of us are roleplaying being role players...

the idea of a provable fact is pretty hard to pin down really. And I am sick of people assuming the worst or putting words in each others posts.

there is 0 reason for these arguments to go the way they are.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Good news!! Their level of involvement is well above zero, so no changes are needed! Aren't you happy now?

Didn't you just get done saying the a number of options above 0 was not simple enough?

 

[jmartkdr2]

I've never met this particular beast in the wild. Not that they don't exist, but I have no experience with them. Usually I have to contend with "great roleplayer who believes in making the worst character possible" (Guy and Dale, I'm sorry but it's true!) and "quiet guy who suffers from decision paralysis and takes 5 minutes to calculate whether he hit or not and how much damage he did" (Sorry Drew, if you see this!).

I've met a couple - they often are used to roleplay in other spaces like tumblr and play-by-post and fanfiction and such. To them, DnD without any class features is a complex/heavy game. I want to give them a class that's just a handful of keywords that the dm can translate to "1d20+X" depending on how well they engage with what else is happening.

I am not, however, sure this can be made to work - DnD is not a light game, by ttrpg or board game standards. It just ain't, and trying to add that to the game might be more trouble than it's worth.

And I really don't know how to name such options without it sounding like I'm talking down to someone.

 

[Maxperson]

i mean you can't prove these are real people. We are taking your word for it. Maybe you are here stiring up trouble having never played and RPG ever with a living being...

That's true, but your belief about my words has no bearing on facts. There are people who believe that the world is flat. The world is still round despite that belief.

is that likely no, but yes some degree of that is debatable.

I mean, he could call me a liar, but no amount of accusation or debate will alter facts.

Maybe all of us are roleplaying being role players...

 

[Maxperson]

Didn't you just get done saying the a number of options above 0 was not simple enough?

What does that have to do with their involvement when playing D&D? And what I said was that the Barbarian isn't simple enough. You have to do more thinking to play one than a Champion.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

They exist and they prefer simple Fighters. That is a fact. Their reasons for doing so are subjective, but their reasons are not a part of this discussion. Only whether they exist or not, which is not debatable.

Yes. You having greater than 95%+ of the classes and subclasses is more than sufficient. When it comes to the remaining very small percentage, I am absolutely giving them a higher priority than you, because you would give then nothing at all. Wanting them to have nothing is pretty selfish.

And I have an equal number of people I can point to to counter that. Holding an entire class hostage for a few individuals is pretty selfish. Not even necessarily for you, mind, sas you're supposing and advocating on their behalf. This is like "saving seats" in a theater, hoping others might show up. And my solution is absolutely giving them options in the form of punched up sidekick classes from Tasha's, so there's a variety of basic classes.

Meanwhile I (and everyone like me) have zero satisfying options for a non-caster.

 

[Maxperson]

And I have an equal number of people I can point to to counter that.

No you can't. There is no counter to the existence of the players I have played with that like simple fighters. You can point to people that don't like simple, but that doesn't negate those that do, so is not a counter.

Holding an entire class hostage for a few individuals is pretty selfish.

Nobody is being held hostage. You have a complex Fighter. Make use of it or don't, but don't try to take the simple version away from those that do.

This is like "saving seats" in a theater, hoping others might show up.

Bad analogies are bad. If there weren't a significant number of people who like simple, there would be no Champion subclass. WotC who as far greater information than you or I do, felt it necessary to invest the design time, playtesting time, and inclusion of the Champion in 5e. There is no "hoping" that they show up. It's a fact that they are already here and playing the game.

And my solution is absolutely giving them options in the form of punched up sidekick classes from Tasha's, so there's a variety of basic classes.

No need. They already have the Champion.

Meanwhile I (and everyone like me) have zero satisfying options for a non-caster.

This is a completely different issue. You'd have more success trying to get WotC to make a more satisfying non-caster for you than you will in trying to get them to screw paying customers over by altering the Champion subclass to suit your wants.