D&D 5E What is canon about older-edition settings in 5E?

[Ruin Explorer]

Nope!

Count yourself lucky.

It's one of the worst adventures in D&D history, not because it's a terrible adventure - it's a somewhat mediocre one, or perhaps even a good one with a crap ending to rival Battlestar Galactica or pre-patch Mass Effect 3 - but because of the lasting vandalism it did to Sigil and Planescape.

Monte Cook had written a number of Planescape adventures previously, ranging from "good" to "amazing". So people had high hope for him. Faction War destroyed literally everything good or interesting about Planescape (except the Blood War, but I forget if that predates Planescape). Swept it away. All the in name of drama. Basically took a giant crap on the setting from a very great height. Imagine if someone took Dragonlance and just killed off all the dragons, and said they were permanently dead and never coming back, oh and also the Knights of Solamnia and the Wizards of High Sorcery all died or quit their jobs. And so did the bad guys. Except it's worse than that. Or like Eberron, and suddenly Dragonmarks all stop working, and everyone with a Dragonmark gets murdered, and there's no mystery, everyone knows why it happened, but Dragonmarks are over, and also the magical technology? That stopped working too.

That's basically what happened in Faction War, because Cook has (almost) all the Factions either wiped out entirely, or driven out of Sigil, never to return.

As I've noted before, Cook swears blind that he didn't mean the situation to end this way, that most of the Factions would have been restored in the next adventure (which never happened), but frankly, I'm skeptical, because he killed off some Factions outright, disbanded others, exiled the rest, and many of the most interesting ones were wiped out or disbanded.

Basically it was massive vandalism. Monte Cook had absolutely nothing to do with conceptualizing Planescape (that was all Zeb Cook), and it seems to me like he wanted to do "Monte Cook's Planescape", just like he did Monte Cook's this and that later (like his hilariously bad take on World of Darkness, which is near-legendary, and not in a good way - I love his Arcana Unearthed though). Anyway, it was a crime, and should be put right. Ignoring crummy canon from the past would allow it to be put right.

Anyway, when people say how much they like Planescape, they're referring to pre-Faction War Planescape. The vast majority of D&D fans, even deep lore ones like you often have here, don't know much about Faction War or even that it happened in many cases, let alone that 4E (psychotically) canonized it (I think 3E did too, to be fair, but 4E really dragged Sigil through the mud lol - and in such an otherwise-good book as the DMG2!).

 

[ersatzphil]

They'd better have retcon'd in the Factions coming back to Sigil, and not going with the absolutely disgraceful setup they had in 4E Sigil (mentioned in the DMG2, in some detail), which has Sigil being run by incredibly boring, no-philosphy, no-attitude, no-style, zero cool three-letter-acronym agencies, like some sort of small, forgettable flyover-state city in the US in the 1970s or something. A diverse and wonderful thing replaced by the most boring possible kind of technocracy.

...good lord, I had to look it up and see for myself. The "Sigil Advisory Council" and the "Mutual Trade Association"? You really weren't kidding.

 

[Faolyn]

They'd better have retcon'd in the Factions coming back to Sigil, and not going with the absolutely disgraceful setup they had in 4E Sigil (mentioned in the DMG2, in some detail), which has Sigil being run by incredibly boring, no-philosphy, no-attitude, no-style, zero cool three-letter-acronym agencies, like some sort of small, forgettable flyover-state city in the US in the 1970s or something. A diverse and wonderful thing replaced by the most boring possible kind of technocracy.

If this is the case, I am so glad I didn't buy any PS adventures or read the 4e take on it.

 

[JEB]

Personally, I think you are being a bit literal. I don't think the 5e DMG was written with plans this far down the road in mind, and I don't think WotC will be too bothered about changing something they said earlier in 5e if they have reason to do so.

I'm not just being a bit literal, I'm being deliberately literal. As I said, I'm taking them at their word.

Besides, as @Ruin Explorer indicated, this still likely gives us an idea of their "big picture" vision for each setting, even if the specific details change.

You missed the sidebar for Vampires about Strahd, and the mention of Ravenloft in the Shadowfell in the DMG.

I figure Ravenloft, Eberron, and the Realms have already been given the setting treatment in 5E, so there's no point in covering lore references there. We already know the 5E canon for them.

It would be useful to also flag things that are different in 5e from other editions.

I'll keep an eye out!

 

[Voadam]

(except the Blood War, but I forget if that predates Planescape)

The Blood War was first introduced as a big element in the 2e Monstrous Compendium Appendix 8 the Outer Planes Appnedix. It came out in '91, three years before Planescape.

 

[JEB]

ELEMENTAL EVIL PLAYER'S COMPANION

Dark Sun

• The sidebar "Genasi on Athas" describes their version of genasi, as people "touched by elemental power" whose are viewed as "seers, prophets, and chosen ones"; genasi births are supposed to be auspicious
• Athas is also described as a world where "elemental forces hold greater sway" than on other worlds, and has slaves, nobles, and desert tribes

VOLO'S GUIDE TO MONSTERS

Spelljammer

• Nautiloids are described at length in the section on mind flayers: they can fly through the worlds of the Material Plane, as well as cross through the Astral Plane; modern mind flayers have lost the secret of making them (not explicitly tied to Spelljammer)
• In a sidebar next to the nautiloid details, Elminster mocks Volo's tales of "ships that sail between the stars" and "jokes" about a "talking hippopotamus that walks on two legs and carries a bow", an oblique reference to the giff (not explicitly tied to Spelljammer; the giff later appear in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes)
• The entry on Neogi references their "spidery" ships, some of which traverse the planes (not explicitly tied to Spelljammer)

Greyhawk

• Erythnul, Iuz, Tharizdun, and Vecna are suggested deities for the yuan-ti.
• The entry for Spawn of Kyuss references Kyuss, a priest of Orcus, as their creator (not explicitly tied to Greyhawk)

Dragonlance

• Chemosh and Sargonnas are suggested deities for the yuan-ti.

 

[Parmandur]

ELEMENTAL EVIL PLAYER'S COMPANION

Dark Sun

• The sidebar "Genasi on Athas" describes their version of genasi, as people "touched by elemental power" whose are viewed as "seers, prophets, and chosen ones"; genasi births are supposed to be auspicious
• Athas is also described as a world where "elemental forces hold greater sway" than on other worlds, and has slaves, nobles, and desert tribes

VOLO'S GUIDE TO MONSTERS

Spelljammer

• Nautiloids are described at length in the section on mind flayers: they can fly through the worlds of the Material Plane, as well as cross through the Astral Plane; modern mind flayers have lost the secret of making them (not explicitly tied to Spelljammer)
• In a sidebar next to the nautiloid details, Elminster mocks Volo's tales of "ships that sail between the stars" and "jokes" about a "talking hippopotamus that walks on two legs and carries a bow", an oblique references to the giff (not explicitly tied to Spelljammer; the giff later appear in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes)
• The entry on Neogi references their "spidery" ships, some of which traverse the planes (not explicitly tied to Spelljammer)

Greyhawk

• Erythnul, Iuz, Tharizdun, and Vecna are suggested deities for the yuan-ti.
• The entry for Spawn of Kyuss references Kyuss, a priest of Orcus, as their creator (not explicitly tied to Greyhawk)

Dragonlance

• Chemosh and Sargonnas are suggested deities for the yuan-ti.

Don't forget to look at the Adventures: Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Rise if Tiamat, and Princes of the apocalypse have tidbits about using other Settings. PotA is actually pretty extensive and detailed.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

...good lord, I had to look it up and see for myself. The "Sigil Advisory Council" and the "Mutual Trade Association"? You really weren't kidding.

Yup. I wish I was kidding or just talking smack. The level of "Oh my god why did you do this what is actually wrong with you?!" when I read that was literally the most extreme I have ever experienced reading an RPG. Which is saying something. Like, WoD:Gypsies, I can at least understand the insanity, and it's clearly a juvenile attempt to "do good" that backfired hard.

It's basically this but in word form:

Elderly Woman Ruins 19th Century Fresco in Restoration Attempt

Get breaking national and world news, broadcast video coverage, and exclusive interviews. Find the top news online at ABC news.

abcnews.go.com

Except like it's actually worse than that, because whoever wrote this, decided "Nah to hell with the Factions, screw 'em, who cared? Philosophy is for nerds and theatre majors! You know what's cool? Bureaucracy! Technocracy! That's what we need more of in the fantastical city of Sigil. People filling out forms. Trade Associations! But not that Kafka-esque stuff, that's going too far - this should all be sensible and moderate!".

I honestly feel like whoever is behind it should be asked "Why?! WHHHHHHYYYYYY????!!!!".

 

[Quickleaf]

Except that people who don't know Planescape might think that Factol is a name, whereas everyone knows what Guildmasters are.

Sure, so what I was driving at with asking Paramandur about their familiarity with Faction War was that there were two specific choices made in the caption labeling for the illustration involving Rhys.

The first was selecting Rhys as the NPC to be portrayed and described. They could have selected any number of Planescape character, including for instance Factol Alisohn Nilesia (who theoretically survived Faction War, by virtue of being sold into slavery on the Lower Planes IIRC). They could have said "Guildmaster Erin Darkflame Montgomery", for example. Instead they opted for the one ruler who was explicitly left alive and active in Sigil.

Then the second choice is using the title Guildmaster, as opposed to any number of other titles: Lord, Ruler, Leader, etc. They could have used no title whatsoever. They chose guildmaster. Which is relevant because in the aftermath portion of Faction War, when the factions were kicked out of Sigil they were replaced by the Sigil Advisory Council – which consisted of various guilds, and Rhys was a member of that group. "Guildmaster" in this context strongly evokes the aftermath chapter of Faction War.

Taken separately, if we had just "Rhys" or if we had "Guildmaster Montgomery", I think your assertion that it's just looking for a term everyone understands, would be more plausible. But together, they form a picture of two deliberate choices, both of which point toward Faction War.

 

[Ath-kethin]

So by this reckoning, Ed Greenwood himself is canon in Dragonlance but Taladas and the Chaos War and Malystryx aren't.

Wow.