D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Mecheon]

I just wonder if some drunk ancient Greek guys had this discussion about centaur anatomy. I wonder what their thoughts were on centaurs' climbing ability.

I'd like to say I've been in a bit of a Greek mythology kick but, I've just been playing a lot of Hades

But I can honestly say I think we've put more thought into centaur biology than the Greeks ever did

 

[FireLance]

But what is there that makes this a dwarf and not a halfling or gnome?

In terms of mechanics, the character has the dwarf racial traits.

Within the fiction of the game, the character used to be a human farmer or forester before the magical disease changed his form and granted him these abilities.

 

[Oofta]

False and demonstrably so. I frankly don't have time to do it, but this would be a simple matter of collecting citations. It's happened as recently as a couple of pages ago where I was asked to defend a position I'd never taken, and I'm certainly not alone

I never asked you to defend a position. I was trying to engage in a conversation because I was trying to bring the conversation back to a discussion of when, why and how it's okay to ban races. That's why the post included words like "maybe I just don't understand" and "please explain".

Instead you just went on the attack. People make comments that I consider misleading, insulting and wrong pointed at the general populace of DMs all the time. Since I agree with several of those ideas and have been a proponent of them, how could I not take it personally?

 

[Remathilis]

So your character is the equivalent of a Michelangelo art piece? Ok. You need to be at my table. Because if it is that good, then all of us need you to play at our table.

Art is art. Creation is creation. Don't misrepresent talent for passion, a player can put as much time and devotion into his orc bards backstory as GRR Martin put in any of his characters, even if they player is only 1/10th the writer GRRM is. To argue less is to say every DM homebrew is inferior to Forgotten Realms because the latter was professionally published.

 

[Scott Christian]

Its the eternal clashing of the new people against the old guard. We challenge the older ideas and question why they were made in the first place. We don't just accept the basic options and instead explore for alternatives, and look into why certain things are done certain ways

There is no old or new guard on here. Nor is there new or old thinking. I have mentioned this before, but I've ran the high school D&D club in several schools for quite a while now. They play whatever they want, until the DM has an idea for their world, and then they don't play whatever they want. It literally is that simple. One DM had an idea that they were all half-orcs, captured after a long war. They started on a prisoner ship. The players all made half-orcs. Simple. No fuss. No mess. The other table had every race under the sun - because the DM didn't set a restriction.

By the way, this isn't me explaining to them the DM has this control. This is them reading the books and inherently understanding what the PHB and DMG is saying.

 

[Scott Christian]

It's iffy.

The players do have the right to an explanation of the theme, tone, genre, and playstyle ofthe DM's setting.

A player could argue a justification of race ban is a clarification of one of those.
A DM could argue that they were very clear and can point to the DMG as a description of what they are running and no additional justification is needed.

This is pretty clear and concise and well said.

DM sets parameters
DM answers questions about parameters (theme, tone, genre, playstyle, rules, races, etc.)
Player can ask about changing any of those
DM should listen and try to work with player
DM has the final say

I think the only one that causes any consternation is that last statement.

 

[Maxperson]

Wait, who was it that was defending a tavern scenario wherein a tabaxi is discriminated against “because claws”?

I never suggested putting them outside with a bowl of warm milk. An Inn may not have centaur capable rooms, but the stables comment was beyond the pale.

 

[Scott Christian]

Between this thread and the erosion of racial distinctiveness post-Tasha's, I'm toying with a "Wild Cards"-like setting in which all the non-human races are humans who have survived but been changed by a magical disease.

There are different nations and cultures, but they are not built around race. "Changed" humans, whether elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, dragonborn, tiefling, tabaxi, shifter, warforged, centaur, satyr, triton, loxodon, kobold, orc, goblin, or whatever, are a known quantity and are tolerated - or not - based on culture and individual preference.

With this, the default response to a player asking, "Can I play Race X?" is, "Sure, you got changed by the disease."

My buddy ran a game where we were all humans, but could take any of the racial traits. He had the cultural "reasons" set up as to why we received said traits. I thought it worked really well.

 

[Scott Christian]

Other groups I've played with haven't done that (rotate through the same world, but with different DMs). I'm curious if there are other groups which do that. If so, do they have some established (either formal or informal) rules about the general state of the game world.

I have done it several times, taken over as DM for a few sessions. The primary reason was because the DMs had no time to put in the work needed or he just wanted to play. I have done this with two DMs.
I approach the DM's world exactly like I approach it as a player. We have played several sessions, so I carefully add an NPC here or there. Nothing groundbreaking. I stick to the setting we have been using. I don't introduce any crazy plot breakers. I don't introduce any new bad guy that seems like it will be a persistent threat. I focus on the small things. For anyone interested here are two examples:

Our group was shifting between the feywild and Neverwinter. There was a breach that was causing all sorts of chaos in both places. Our group was playing a good alignment; helping the dryads and lord of Neverwinter figure out how to close the breach. We had had some resistance from the thieves' guild and (god I hate to even mention this) the centaurs on the other side. I made an adventure where the thieves' guild had a stash of their loot in a crazy trap infested hole at the bottom of a well. There was some RP play to find out the info (which well, who built it, the schematics), some exploration into the well (traps, skill challenges) and a fight at the end with some guild members. Nothing ground breaking. Stick to the theme. The NPC I introduced was used for the rest of the campaign. That was the DM's call.

The second time our group was in a small fishing village in the north. We had been exposed to these evil war-mongering dwarves, the shadowfell, giants, and many NPCs from the town. The DM had grand plans with an angel, celestial ingredients, etc. But, the players for five or six sessions never followed it. Just really wanted to build a home in the adventurer's guild they had taken over (with good acts). So I had them meet an NPC that mentioned he found gems in the glacier, but also heard scary noises in a small cave. They explored the cave. Lots of skill checks due to ice. Fought a remorhaz, and met a giant. The giant was hurt and had dwarf prisoners. The dwarves, being the common enemy, showed up and a battle ensued. The giant died, but the giants later came to town and said the town was off limits to raiding from the other frost giants for 1 year because of the good deed. The guild also had a continuous (albeit small) supply of coin from the glacier via the NPC.

No earth shifts. No new introductions. Just using what has already been shown.

 

[Scott Christian]

Art is art. Creation is creation. Don't misrepresent talent for passion, a player can put as much time and devotion into his orc bards backstory as GRR Martin put in any of his characters, even if they player is only 1/10th the writer GRRM is. To argue less is to say every DM homebrew is inferior to Forgotten Realms because the latter was professionally published.

Sorry. I was just poking fun at the hyperbolic statement. And my guess is 99.9% of players and 99.9% of DMs don't put as much time or devotion than professional writers like Martin or Greenwood. Those characters and worlds might not be inferior in some people's eyes, but there is a thing called ethos. Credibility is built on reputation. Those two have the reputation because they put so much time and devotion into their creation. But, that is another debate.