What is the best way to create effective Monk only with core rules?

[Jeremy]

Best Core Rules monk? As in most powerful melee monk you can make with only the three core rule books? Then I'd say a Half-Fiend Troll Monk.

You mean the most powerful in melee PC monk? I'd say probably a half-dragon human monk followed closely by a half-celestial human monk.

If you mean the most useful PHB monk in a party setting in and outside of combat? No such animal. Make up a character concept that you like, a personality, a history, and relations and make any mechanical combination you can think of that would represent that fictional person. Because no monk is the "best".

My 2 cents completely unrelated to the preceding rules debates.

 

[gamecat]

A friend of mine ran a Lizard Folk Half-Fiend Monk to deadly effect. I ruled that a Lizard Folks 1d4 claw attack scales 1 dice ahead of the Monks unarmed progression.

 

[Corwin]

A friend of mine ran a Lizard Folk Half-Fiend Monk to deadly effect. I ruled that a Lizard Folks 1d4 claw attack scales 1 dice ahead of the Monks unarmed progression.

Well, yeah. I'd say any combat monk who gets extra damage would tend to kick butt. Sure. But that's a house rule that I wouldn't apply to my games.

Heck, I myself run a half-dragon monk and have natural claws and a bite. But rather than getting extra damage, I just asked to let my monk unarmed damage be switchable to slashing/piercing if I choose. I think that works well.

What's more fun is that I tend to keep a change self item on all the time to make me look human. But my punches inexplicably leave claw marks.

 

[Ferret]

Sorry but there weapons...Or classed as them

How about this Aasimar monk I was saying about?

 

[Jeremy]

Well, yeah. I'd say any combat monk who gets extra damage would tend to kick butt. Sure. But that's a house rule that I wouldn't apply to my games.

Actually, Wizards of the Coast has rules that specifically apply to monks that have natural attacks or unarmed attacks that do more than a human's normal 1d3. And it works pretty much like gamecat said.

 

[Corwin]

Actually, Wizards of the Coast has rules that specifically apply to monks that have natural attacks or unarmed attacks that do more than a human's normal 1d3. And it works pretty much like gamecat said.

I would love to see any evidence you may have regarding this claim. Really.

If there is some kind of eratta or official WoTC clarification, by all means, post it please. Your assertation is baseless without support.

 

[Jeremy]

Baseless?

You'll find it on page 62 of the WotC guidebook entitled "Sword & Fist" under Chapter 4: The Game within the Game, Subheading: Monstrous Fighters and Monks.

For instance, the Half-Fiend Troll Monk I listed before as a possible example does the following damages at the following levels:

Lvl......Dmg

1-3.....1d8
4-7.....1d10
8-11....1d12
12-15...2d8
16-20...2d10

You can clearly see this in Table 4-4. You'll forgive me if I don't normally give page numbers and subparagraphs when I give rules advice. I find it tiresome.

As I said before, this system, while different from gamecat's is somewhat similar and officially supported by Wizards of the Coast. This system is more based off of size than natural attack damage, but as I said, it is only similar to gamecat's system but still a good alternative and a non-House Rule system.

 

[Corwin]

Wow, for someone with such a chip on your shoulders, it's really going to suck hard to be shown how wrong you are...

Those numbers are based purely on size. There is nothing there that even remotely suggests the added damage is based on any kind of natural weapons. It's nothing more than size progression. Just like a huge greatsword does more damage, so does a huge fist. To try and extrapolate that into bonus damage for having claws is just rediculous and ludicrous. If that were the case, why doesn't the example troll in the same section get a double bump? One for size increase and one for claws? Hmmm?

And the point of contention is in regards to his lizardman not your troll. Obviously the troll will do the increased damage, I never said it shouldn't. It's a large creature. But a lizardman is medium-sized. They should not get any kind of increased damage because they happen to have claws. That is where your argument falls short for trying to support his. You aren't even arguing the same thing. Please try to keep your arguments, gamecat's arguments, and mine strait, huh?

Sheesh.

 

[Corwin]

Oh, and one more thing...

You'll forgive me if I don't normally give page numbers and subparagraphs when I give rules advice. I find it tiresome.

What you did was not to give rules advice, but to give rules misinformation. IMO, you are detrimental to poor newbies who lurk here trying to gain knowledge into how to understand the rules. To me, that is tiresome.

Usually, it is nice to state your evidence and/or sources when stating something as fact. That way, people don't have to come back and waste time asking you for it later. Plus, it has the added bonus of letting people know, right up front, that you don't know what you are talking about. Less time gets wasted that way.

Just for future reference.

 

[Jeremy]

Perhaps you are misunderstanding me, perhaps you just like taking shots at me. Regardless I'd appreciate it if you didn't simply call my opinions baseless. I am capable of being wrong like everyone else.

Now if you'll allow me to repeat myself again, I said that WotC's system for dealing with monstrous monks is similar to gamecat's house rule.

Yes, it does not factor in the claws and talons, bone ridges and dimensional hands that exist out there but if it did it would be precisely like gamecat's system which is not what I've said.

It's similar. Meaning if you wanted to afford some advantage to medium sized natural weapon armed monks you could. Its foundations are in the rules and are expandable from there.

I'm sorry this upsets you so but maybe you need to cut down on the caffeine a little. No, forget that, that might be construed as an attack too. Suffice it to say, I do not generally indulge in flame wars and generally apply to the following popular politically incorrect slogan.

"Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."

So that said, calm down if you like, bash me if you like, but please, don't expect me to respond to your posts any further if you do.