What is the essence of D&D

[Campbell]

5E uses a lot of 4E mech itanics to duplicate pre 3E playstyles probably more like 2E.

Mechanically there's not that much wrong with 4E it's class design specifically powers and it's playstyle.

4E was good at being an advanced minis skirmish game. Wasn't so good at everything else.

It was really good at heroic fantasy. With strong scene framing and good handle on skill challenges it could be used to play out some really epic fantasy. This really plays out well with the thematic material attached to Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies.

It was horrible at dungeon crawling and conflict neutral play. Unfortunately they decided to make almost all the official adventures dungeon crawls.

It was really good at being what it was. It was really bad at being Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Garthanos]

4E was good at being an advanced minis skirmish game. Wasn't so good at everything else.

1e was good at being fantasy vietnam.... not much good at anything else. See what that sounds like?

 

[Campbell]

1e was good at being fantasy vietnam.... not much good at anything else. See what that sounds like?

That was Zardnaar. Not me.

 

[Garthanos]

That was Zardnaar. Not me.

pardon my Copypasta

 

[Zardnaar]

1e was good at being fantasy vietnam.... not much good at anything else. See what that sounds like?

I don't think 1E was played as fantasy Vietnam although you could do it. B/X is better for that.

It was decent at dungeon crawling. Wasn't that good at much else until late 1E and some splats.

4E was good at what it was. Big problem was most people don't play like that.

 

[Garthanos]

I don't think 1E was played as fantasy Vietnam although you could do it.

You would be very much wrong it was so common that brutality is celebrated !!!!

 

[Garthanos]

Looks up thread about DEATH being easy and permanent yeh it came from somewhere.

 

[Garthanos]

I could have even said 1e was good at playing pac man with a veneer of fantasy tropes on top as dungeons were nonsense ... and I am the one telling people the only good paladin and ranger were from 1e

 

[Zardnaar]

You would be very much wrong it was so common that brutality is celebrated !!!!

On forums, gritty yes but fantasy Vietnam is more like Tomb of Horrors.

Things like that were the exception not the rule.

We played some old adventures 2012-14 most are fairly easy. You always had that element is risk though due to blowing a save.

 

[Hussar]

Players didn't choose then though. Having 8 +1 swords no big deal.

8 +1 swords become a +2 weapon in 3E or more likely +1 with an ability. That ability could be married to feats and class abilities.

Keen plus improved critical comes to mind. On a scimitar.

Heh, but, then we run into actual play.

No DM is ever going to simply hand out 8 +1 swords. At some point, that +2 sword is going to slip in. Then a +3. Then a Sword of Sharpness or whatever.

And, to the surprise of no one, these will all follow the level of the characters pretty closely. So, that module for 8th level characters will feature lots of magic items that are more powerful than a module for a 2nd level party. The change in 3e was that the rules allowed the players to be specific about what they added to their character. But, in terms of actual power? Naw, AD&D gave TONS of magical power to the party in terms of magic items.

Again ,you have to realize the sheer number of items we're talking about. A 7th level 3e party might have what, 2-4 items per PC. Somewhere close to that anyway, not counting potions of healing anyway. That 7th level AD&D party, particularly if they played modules, would have 3-4 TIMES more items. Three or four magic weapons, and half a dozen items wasn't out of line. Even the pregen AD&D PC's, which were woefully underequiped, still generally had half a dozen items.