What It's Like For a Gamer Girl

[Teflon Billy]

Daniel's fine -- one of these days I may change my handle on these boards to something pronounceable ...

Pyel-O-Rinn-Yo

 

[howandwhy99]

I think I wouldn't want to play in your game. I'm not interested in romantic plots, and I don't want to play with "charmers", and I don't want to be either a courtesan or a princess. I want to be a fighter who can lay the smack-down on the bad guys, or I want to be a wizard who casts powerful spells, or I want to be a rogue who to whom no lock is an impediment, or I want to be a cleric who is the chosen of her god. Perhaps that makes me an atypical female. Or perhaps it just makes me a gamer. But I surely wouldn't invite any of my nongaming female friends to a game by using your suggestions. I think they would all run screaming. Is it possible that all the women I know are atypical?

Hi Buttercup,

I'm sorry if my post came across as sexist. My intention was take aim at some sort of positive conclusion for this discussion. Namely, by changing the perception of D&D as a young man's game to one appealing to everyone. Changing the ratio of men and women who actually play seems one realizable goal to that end. My thinking is that with a better balanced gaming population, instances like Afrodyte's would be less likely to occur.

And then, of course, I suggested playing a game for (stereotypical) 'female wish-fulfillment'. And that was my fault. What I'm really interested in are ways to entice all women into gaming. Any help to that effect would be appreciated. My suggestion was trying to show how the gameplay itself could change and how that might be an easier sell. (the latter part of the suggestion is where I made a bad assumption)

But maybe it's not a discussion for this thread. I do feel, however, that a positive resolution can can come out of this for changing gaming experiences for the better. While I, personally, can only console Afrodyte in her experience and relate with my own, maybe as a group we can address the problem with potential solutions instead? I think we as a community have the capacity to create change, if we want to.


PS: The courtesan bit was really just from past experience. If you reread my post, I assure you I'm not for the new in-game sex play which is getting so much press.

 

[William Ronald]

This has been a very interesting thread to read. I have played with quite a few female games over the years, and one is semi-active in our group.

I have not noticed many problems between men and women in the group. I think it is perhaps that most of the people in my group are mature, and try to treat each other with respect (and keep kidding around within certain limits.)

I have played with some problematic female gamers, but I believe their problems were due to their individual personalities and goals. (One woman decided to have her character betray the party for political goals. It did not work out well for her or her character.)

Perhaps the key thing in communicating with people of either gender is to try to have some empathy for others and to try to understand their viewpoints. I don't have all the answers, and I have never meet any human being who has all the answers. Yet we can still be considerate of others. Empathy and understanding are traits that perhaps all of us need to work on in this world.

Afrodyte, you might try to find another group of more mature players. There are several ways to do so, including contacting people at gaming stores as well as the board's own Gamers Seeking Gamers forum. From what I have read, the men and women who have posted to this thread seem to be a fairly insightful and fun bunch. All of whom would be welcome at my gaming table.

 

[Buttercup]

And then, of course, I suggested playing a game for (stereotypical) 'female wish-fulfillment'. And that was my fault. What I'm really interested in are ways to entice all women into gaming. Any help to that effect would be appreciated. My suggestion was trying to show how the gameplay itself could change and how that might be an easier sell. (the latter part of the suggestion is where I made a bad assumption)

I haven't had a problem getting women to play. Perhaps it's because I'm a woman, and I'm running the game? Dunno.

At any rate, the way I hook nongamers is that I invite them to watch a session. Because we end up laughing a lot, and because my players come up with at least one totally insane yet wonderful idea per session, the observer usually ends up eager to play. It's hard to resist joining in on a good time with a bunch of nice people. The trick, I think, is getting them to the table to observe in the first place. This is true regardless of gender.

I'm sure my game wouldn't appeal to everyone. Some might prefer more role playing, and some might prefer less. Some might want more political intrigue than I put in. Some might like a higher magic setting, or a lower one. But Those preferences wouldn't be tied to gender.

There are three women playing in my game right now. One is a dwarf fighter who loves to wade into the fray to bash heads, one is an irrepressible halfling rogue who comes up with McGuyver-esque solutions and the third is a teenage sorcerer who is just figuring out that he's a bit different from everyone else, including the fact that he can communicate with the mangy tomcat that has been following him around for the last year. The three guys (there were four, but one moved to another state two weeks ago ) are playing a human female bard, a halfling former circus performer/escaped slave/rogue/cleric and another dwarf fighter, this one obsessed with clockwork and the sharpness of his axe. If I hadn't mentioned the gender of the players, I don't think anyone would be able to guess it from a description of the characters they're playing. Anyway, I'll stop belaboring the point.

The way to get more people to game is to get them to observe, so they can see how much fun it is.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

(Nonetheless, I doubt there are very many women who are eager to play a whore in an RPG. That idea totally baffled me.)

As a random side note, the inablity of the players in my last group to tell the difference between a "courtesean" and a "whore" prevented me from exploring a fun, political and entirely non sexually charged character idea. I kinda hoped it was their problem, its disapointing to see as intelligent and (as far as can be assumed from your posts) compatible roleplayer make the same mistake.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I agree with most of your opinions about social interaction in this thread until this. It's belittling to believe that those who once were geeks and now aren't, are now not geeks because they "socialized into gender norms."

Not everything is about gender. Most geeks have the same interests and activities they did before, but now they have social skills to adapt to different situations. Social skills are not gender specific because, although one can argue that knowing how to react is influenced by gender roles, there are also many completely acceptable ways to act independant of gender roles. Also, knowing a gender role doesn't in any form or fashion mean that one must act in that manner: that's choice.

Funny I could swear I went out of my way to say that it "no longer overlapped" rather than making any causal pronouncements... and you even quoted that part. The problem I had was not with gamers who were "once geeks, now rehabilitated" as it were, its with completely non geeky types who have come to gaming in its maturity.

I also never said that being a geek was "about gender". However, it does overlap conviniently with some gender issues. If, for instance, one was raised in a subculture where gender roles are ridigly enforced both internally and externally, and you don't "fit in", other people who don't "fit in" are going to be your best bet for people who have not internalized those strong gender roles and are more willing to deal with you as a person. Also, when a passtime is both fringe, and requires more people to be more fun, participating in that passtime is often a good way to be accepted as yourself rather than being judged on plumbing or herd mentality. As that passtime becomes less fringe, it attracts more people who apply the same old subculture judgements in addition to your ability to participate.

And although I agree with most of what you've said, you've managed to say it all the wrong ways assuming your posts were attempts to get people to view "typical" behavior from a different viewpoint. No one, especially the ones whose behavior your criticising, is going to respond positively to the tone you used.

*snort* sadly I don't have time to go through for the choicest examples of the tone I came into here, though the phrases "grow some stones" and "if you encounter more than one a week, you're it" stick out as having been fully acceptable responses to a person feeling uncomfortable... In any case, I have a game to run.

Kahuna burger

 

[Pielorinho]

*snort* sadly I don't have time to go through for the choicest examples of the tone I came into here, though the phrases "grow some stones" and "if you encounter more than one a week, you're it" stick out as having been fully acceptable responses to a person feeling uncomfortable.

FTR, I didn't find these phrases acceptable, and I dunno where you got the impression that even a majority of people did. I just know from experience that I'm not going to have any luck changing people's minds on using these phrases; OTOH, folks I mostly agree with but who ruin our agreement through broad-brush-painting of the genders are often willing to moderate their rhetoric when called on it.

Daniel

 

[David Argall]

naturally

"4. Must guys have an opinion for eeeeeverything?"

Yes. A study a number of years back had men and women approaching men and women asking for directions. The men approached would rarely admit they did not know the answer. They would often refuse to answer other men, but they gave women directions whether or not they knew.


"Is every statement up for debate? Why is it that guys often take a difference of opinion or preference as an opportunity to convert me to their way of seeing things? It doesn't matter what it is. Why do they always try to win, even if there's nothing to win in the first place?"

Because you [or the next lass] don't go out with losers. Even when there is nothing at issue, there is a whole lot at issue.

 

[Kilmore]

WARNING!! WARNING!!
In many cases, the males that post to EN World are among the most thoughtful, courteous, open-minded, least egotistical male dice mongers found at role-playing tables, a situation encouraged by the vigilant moderation and self-policing of the EN World messageboards.

The opinions expressed by these men, especially those regarding tolerance, fairness, inclusion of different opinions, and sexual politics, should not NECESSARILY be construed as those of the male gaming population at large.

Though one could always hope.

 

[Morbidity]

Finally finished skimming this thread. I’m now convinced I’m a gamer guy trapped in a gamer girl’s body! Argumentative, can be very condescending if I think the person should know the answer, definitely have an opinion on everything most of which I will state as an indisputable fact … is there a support group out there for me?

I must say that I’ve never had problems gaming whether I’m the only female on the table or one of many. Perhaps I’ve just been lucky or it could be that I’ve never had a problem being one of the boys. The worst I’ve had is a few uncomfortable moments at conventions when standing on my own and guys come up to me to try and chat me up and I have problems getting rid of them without being very rude.

A lot of what the guys have been saying here seems to be if you join a group which is very blokey then ‘if you don’t like the heat get out of the kitchen’. This is an appalling concept when applied to a work or club environment, but is I think perfectly acceptable when applied to a group of friends getting together. Why shouldn’t a group of friends who get together behave (probably in the privacy of someone’s home) as they choose? If their behavious doesn’t suit a specific individual then if it’s a specific issue then raise it and they may change, but if its more generic find yourself a not quite so blokey group.