What It's Like For a Gamer Girl

[Henry]

Women:
Are nice to your face.
Will not directly humiliate you when BOTH of you are in public.
Are vicious and backstabbing behind your back.
Will try to arrange for you to be humiliated in public where their role is indirect so that they are not implicated (goes back to "appearing nice in front of everyone").

Men:
Are jerks to your face.
Will directly humiliate you when both of you are in public.
Surprisingly, tend to stick up for you behind your back.
Don't try nearly as hard to humiliate you without implicating themselves... they want everyone to know who humiliated you.

Amazing. Simply Amazing. My wife's words, almost exactly.

My wife, paragon of direct action that she is, has often said of some women she worked with long ago, "I'd rather you stab me in the front - that way, I can at least defend myself."

 

[Afrodyte]

Trainz (and others):

I guess that in the rush of responses this thread has gotten, the following parts of my posts have been overlooked. I'll repost them here just for the sake of clarity:

Introduction (not disclaimer) to my first post.
The following are just observations and a bit of opinion. I am in no way convinced I'm right. It's completely subjective, and I'm not accusing every male gamer of all the behaviors here. I admit that some male gamers get along with me swimmingly, and they don't have to be gay or transsexual to do it. I just want to give you my perspective and come to some sort of consensus on these experiences. The things I'm about to say may just be part of a large string of coincidences, but if it's part of a larger problem, it'll help me deal with things better.

My third post
(snip brief response to someone's question)

Everyone else> Please do not take what I said out of context. When I ask these questions, it is in the hope of trying to understand, not pass judgment or condemn all men of being jerks, or immature, or anything like that. I appreciate your advice because I believe it meant in the spirit to help, but that's not really what I'm driving at. I'm just relating my experiences and offering a little bit of how I interpret things. I don't come to the table expecting to be treated badly or unfairly. I don't think men are sexist pigs. I like men. Really. I find many of them attractive. I can find men delightful. It's just that sometimes the guys I game with do things that I don't understand, which can be frustrating to deal with. This is especially because I don't want to overreact to minor things or refuse to react to major issues. It's a difference, know what I mean?

 

[Aaron L]

But as you pointed out in your post, men like to debate. And to explain.

 

[Pielorinho]

Afrodyte, as several folks have mentioned, your disclaimers don't mean much when the rest of your post contradicts them. If a lot of people find that you're painting with a broad brush, maybe the problem is with your post and not with everyone else's reading comprehension?

There's a famous way to watch for a racist: they're the ones who say, "I've got nothing against black people, but...." Homophobes say, "Some of my best friends are gay, but...." Anti-Semites say, "It's not that I don't like Jews, but...."

Your disclaimer reads awfully to me like, "I've got nothing against men, but...." When you say things like that, I feel suspicious. My hackles raise, and I start listening for sweeping overgeneralizations to follow. Your post contained sweeping overgeneralizations. When you were called on them, rather than apologizing, you claimed that I have trouble with reading comprehension. When you say things like that, it hurts me, and makes me a lot less likely to trust you to be honest in your subsequent posts.

Just one guy's viewpoint.

Daniel

 

[Afrodyte]

Afrodyte, as several folks have mentioned, your disclaimers don't mean much when the rest of your post contradicts them. If a lot of people find that you're painting with a broad brush, maybe the problem is with your post and not with everyone else's reading comprehension?

There's a famous way to watch for a racist: they're the ones who say, "I've got nothing against black people, but...." Homophobes say, "Some of my best friends are gay, but...." Anti-Semites say, "It's not that I don't like Jews, but...."

Your disclaimer reads awfully to me like, "I've got nothing against men, but...." When you say things like that, I feel suspicious. My hackles raise, and I start listening for sweeping overgeneralizations to follow. Your post contained sweeping overgeneralizations. When you were called on them, rather than apologizing, you claimed that I have trouble with reading comprehension. When you say things like that, it hurts me, and makes me a lot less likely to trust you to be honest in your subsequent posts.

Just one guy's viewpoint.

Daniel

I apologize if I made you feel that way, for that was not my intent. However, the sarcasm and irony have not escaped me, but I respect you enough to take you seriously, so I am sorry for not making it more clear that I do not hold the male half of humanity responsible for these behaviors.

 

[Frito_KAL]

I see two problems here.

First, the guys you are gaming with are jerks. That's obvious.

They probably have some redeeming qualities, and can be creative, interesting and fun. But they are jerks.

Not all gamer guys are like this, of course.

Second, you are making some broad statements that are pretty insulting to male gamers..

Not all guys make everything into an arguement. Not all guys blow off people's requests to avoid sensitive subjects. Yes, I know, you 'disclaimed' it in the first paragraph, but nonetheless - still pretty sexist. Were I male, I'd be offended.

--

I know I'm going to take flack for this (but then, I'm not running around painting most gamer guys with a big "Socially Insensitive Jerk" brush.) - and frankly, I don't care.

The tone of your post, and some of your statements leads me to believe that if you want to continue gaming with these people, you need to grow a thicker skin. People sometimes aren't nice. People sometimes say stupid, rude stuff without realizing what will happen.

I would wager that some of the problem is your reaction to the people in question. Taking offense to things that are meant in jest, or inadvertantly rude is the fastest way, in some social circles, to get labeled "Weepy" or "Unable to Take a Joke" or "Oversensitive".

People who are jerks capitalize in this. They don't back off, they don't give in. They get WORSE.

People who are socially awkward ALSO do these things, sometimes without realizing they are upsetting someone.

They don't want to play with someone who can't keep up with what they percieve to be 'toughness' or 'a sense of humor', they don't want to have to back down from sensitive or taboo topics just because one person is uncomfortable with them, and they don't want to change just for one person they perceive to be whiny.

Its not a guy thing. Its not a gamer thing. Its a jerk thing.

 

[Pielorinho]

I apologize if I made you feel that way, for that was not my intent. However, the sarcasm and irony have not escaped me, but I respect you enough to take you seriously, so I am sorry for not making it more clear that I do not hold the male half of humanity responsible for these behaviors.

Sarcasm? Irony? Oh, you mean the "when you say...it makes me feel..." statements?

Yeah, I was funnin' you a little: I figured I was gonna express the thought anyway, so I may as well express it in a means that contradicted the generalizations your posts made (and at the same time hopefully made Teflon Billy's flesh crawl ).

But I do mean it. It's not acceptable to say, "I know that Jews aren't all greedy, and I get along fine with plenty of Jews. But how come the Jews control Hollywood and distort the entertainment industry to reflect their agenda?"

Your post came across to me as saying something very similar about guys.

Yeah, you're playing with some jerks. But they're not jerks because they're guys. The vast majority of gamers are guys, true -- but that means that when you encounter a jerky gamer, they're pretty likely to be a guy.

I'd be afraid that if you came into my group, you'd be expecting me to be all confrontational and patronizing and stuff, since I've got external plumbing. And ifyou expected me to be a jerk, there's a good chance that you'd radiate hostile vibes toward me -- and I'd respond by thinking, "What the heck is HER problem?" and wouldn't be very nice back to you.

Definitely get out of this group of jerks, if they're being this frustrating to you. But please don't go into your next gaming group with the assumption that the guys in it are going to behave similarly.

Again: treat everyone as an individual with a peculiar personality, and you won't find yourself making bad assumptions about them.

Daniel

 

[reapersaurus]

Afrodyte -
Props for being so explanatory in your first post.
What one poster said was a weakness, I consider a strength : you know these are your opinions, and you're looking for validation, or an understanding why you feel this way.

Bravo.

That's a great foundation - now, can you follow it up with analyzing your actions and reactions, and seeing how you are a part of the problem as well?
ALL of us contribute to problems, people - it's simply a matter of HOW MUCH of the problem is truly caused by our behavior?

Now, if you've analyzed your actions, and considered people's explanations and offerings of clarity in this thread, and you STILL believe the problem to be moistly your peers and not yours.... than you OWE it to yourself to find a group that behaves the way you want.

Here's a point:
Probably every guy here has had groups that he has not been able to get along with.
It has to do with gaming styles, of course. Your issue compounds gender relations into it.

If you don't see a workable situation with you RL group(s) by now in this thread, than I strongly recommend to find a group that is either all female, or has more than 1 female in it.
This tends to change the whole approach of the group, in a way I almost guarantee you would prefer.

A classic 'all-guy' group is something I don't particularly relish the thought of playing with either.
Unless I want to show them how much better at powergaming I am than them...

 

[Wicht]

Re: Re: What It's Like For a Gamer Girl

Not all guys make everything into an arguement.

Of course we don't make everything into an argument. The intelligent amongst us only argue those points we think we can win.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

Egads. What a thread. I'm at work now, on my way out, But I plan on responding to this later.

You have all read my posts about guys I've gamed with , but that was THEM being THEM not THEM being guys.

The annoying girl in one of those groups was FAR worse IMNSHO.

But anyhooo....

I'll be back to say more in a bit...

Djeta.