What kind of game should D&D be?--Forked Thread: When did I stop being...
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ExploderWizard
Hero
A class and level based system certainly. I liked the individual skills from 3E but I hated the skill point system. Trying to be a fighter with decent non-combat skills was frustrating.
I just realized recently that I also dislike feats. Customization is a nice thing but a ton of choices to cram into a few slots type of character building is too time consuming for something like a simple class and level game.
Because I like the human and humanoid NPC's that interact with the PC's to be built on more or less the same rules, 3E NPC generation was pretty annoying.
4E returned to the days of simple NPC creation but kept the buffet style of PC building that was annoying. For me thats why old school systems are so great. PC's and NPC's can be built quickly in the same way due to mechanical simplicity.
I just realized recently that I also dislike feats. Customization is a nice thing but a ton of choices to cram into a few slots type of character building is too time consuming for something like a simple class and level game.
Because I like the human and humanoid NPC's that interact with the PC's to be built on more or less the same rules, 3E NPC generation was pretty annoying.
4E returned to the days of simple NPC creation but kept the buffet style of PC building that was annoying. For me thats why old school systems are so great. PC's and NPC's can be built quickly in the same way due to mechanical simplicity.
Betote
First Post
Just curiosity: how is 3e a "hybrid" system? Just because you get to locate a few skill points and select a couple of feats (which are almost always related to your class)?
I voted class/level, but I don't want cookie-cut characters either. So I prefer class/level with a bit of customization.
Hybrid systems? WFRPG or Rolemaster come to mind (great games both of them - although I'd never run a RM game. Not for free, anyway).
I voted class/level, but I don't want cookie-cut characters either. So I prefer class/level with a bit of customization.
Hybrid systems? WFRPG or Rolemaster come to mind (great games both of them - although I'd never run a RM game. Not for free, anyway).
Mouseferatu
Hero
All three have their pros and cons. What makes though less sense IMO is the hybrid approach (3e). Regarding the class/level option I also think that classes should better be more generalized: up to 4e powers (martial, arcane, primal etch). This means that if you choose martial character it remains a martial character but he could choose his developing abilities from all the martial ones.
Fallen Seraph
First Post
I want class based, since well that is D&D. I too don't understand how 3e is a hybrid.
Fifth Element
Legend
Admit it. You just wanted to fork from the "When did I stop being..." thread like everyone else.
To answer the question: class/level. It is one of the defining characteristics of D&D.
To answer the question: class/level. It is one of the defining characteristics of D&D.
Herremann the Wise
First Post
I think class/level has to be part of the mix. Just a quick question though.
• Would it be possible to have both (that is a simple class/level system and a finer grain, skill set system) working side-by-side, and in synch?
For those that wished cleaner/easier/quicker, class/level could be picked straight out of the book (NPCs too). And for those that wished for greater detail/complexity/choices well they could get their fix as well with finer grain levelling. I don't think a point system would ever feel like D&D. However, if you had a choice of:
[select class]
or
[select a "Primary" skill set (focused on class skills be they martial, divine or arcane), a "Secondary" skill set (focused on non-combat and character skills) and a "Special" skill set (any of the above or more)], then I think that would be cool.
Just as the attribute increase in 4E goes to two different attributes (encouraging breadth rather than just depth), I think it would be cool if you could do this for levelling and combat/non-combat skill sets. Rather than reluctantly choosing a combat "skill/feat" because it is going to be more useful over a non-combat skill/feat that develops the character but is going to be less used, you get to choose one of each instead. A finer grained skill system would seem to support this. I suppose the question is, "Would this still feel like D&D"?
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
• Would it be possible to have both (that is a simple class/level system and a finer grain, skill set system) working side-by-side, and in synch?
For those that wished cleaner/easier/quicker, class/level could be picked straight out of the book (NPCs too). And for those that wished for greater detail/complexity/choices well they could get their fix as well with finer grain levelling. I don't think a point system would ever feel like D&D. However, if you had a choice of:
[select class]
or
[select a "Primary" skill set (focused on class skills be they martial, divine or arcane), a "Secondary" skill set (focused on non-combat and character skills) and a "Special" skill set (any of the above or more)], then I think that would be cool.
Just as the attribute increase in 4E goes to two different attributes (encouraging breadth rather than just depth), I think it would be cool if you could do this for levelling and combat/non-combat skill sets. Rather than reluctantly choosing a combat "skill/feat" because it is going to be more useful over a non-combat skill/feat that develops the character but is going to be less used, you get to choose one of each instead. A finer grained skill system would seem to support this. I suppose the question is, "Would this still feel like D&D"?
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
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