What kind of magic do you like?

[Eosin the Red]

The presence or absence of magic, zap guns, bread-making machines or turnips has nothing to do with the heroes' journey.

The over proliferation of magic - such as in FR - seriously diminishes the ability to tell this type of story. Part of the journey is the heritiage to a special power/origin/inate ability. Since every other monkey in the world can claim a similar status, the hero ceases to be the hero and becomes one of the crowd (Hmmm I can be destined to be a Choosen, a Spellfire User, a Highmage, a Secrect Lord of Waterdeep, A Harper, ad naseum). Something needs to set the young hero apart.

Dune, Starwars, Babylon 5 (in a manner of speaking), the WoT, the Sword of Truth, would have all had their stories cheapened by adding a hodge-podge of special magics/powers just to accomodate all the varied tastes out there (I don't necessarily like all of those). For a journey type story you need a controlled enviroment, not one designed to offer something for everyone.

So you are correct - zap guns do not negate the ability to tell a journey type of story, but then that wasn't what I said.

 

[hong]

The over proliferation of magic - such as in FR - seriously diminishes the ability to tell this type of story.

Poppycock. Just because powerful magic is available has no necessary impact on the story that's told.

Part of the journey is the heritiage to a special power/origin/inate ability.

A 20th level character has, by any definition, lots of "special powers". Going from low to high level in D&D _is_ the hero's journey, encapsulated in a convenient, easy-to-use form. All that remains is interpret it and give it a context that makes sense for you and your players.

Since every other monkey in the world can claim a similar status, the hero ceases to be the hero and becomes one of the crowd (Hmmm I can be destined to be a Choosen, a Spellfire User, a Highmage, a Secrect Lord of Waterdeep, A Harper, ad naseum). Something needs to set the young hero apart.

Why do people always erect this ludicrous strawman that high magic == FR? FR happens to be ONE world where magic is widespread. There's no law requiring you to set all your campaigns in that world; even if you did, there's no law requiring you to use every organisation and high-level NPC ever published. You emphasise those bits that are important to you, and leave out the rest.

Dune, Starwars, Babylon 5 (in a manner of speaking), the WoT, the Sword of Truth, would have all had their stories cheapened by adding a hodge-podge of special magics/powers just to accomodate all the varied tastes out there (I don't necessarily like all of those). For a journey type story you need a controlled enviroment, not one designed to offer something for everyone.

What a good thing nobody ever suggested "adding a hodge-podge of special magics/powers".

 

[Eosin the Red]

Why do people always erect this ludicrous strawman that high magic == FR? FR happens to be ONE world where magic is widespread. There's no law requiring you to set all your campaigns in that world; even if you did, there's no law requiring you to use every organisation and high-level NPC ever published. You emphasise those bits that are important to you, and leave out the rest.

First part, It is simply the most popular example. I could have just as easily singled out another published world. I though I would keep it a context that I would assume both of us would know. Not a strawman - a contextual definition. If you would like to use another reference world - feel free. Star trek has many of same problems as it grows and tries to appeal to an everwidening audiance.

Next part, we basically agree that the world (and similar ones) as written to be all things to all people do not work for a tight story. We have to drop parts and organizations? I don't see where we disagree here. Given liberty - you could tell the story anywhere, but the world would scarsly resemble the published setting.

Poppycock. Just because powerful magic is available has no necessary impact on the story that's told.

I agree with your statement. It doesn't address my point that OVERPROLIFERATION of magic DIMINISHES the ability to tell the heroes story.

A 20th level character has, by any definition, lots of "special powers". Going from low to high level in D&D _is_ the hero's journey, encapsulated in a convenient, easy-to-use form. All that remains is interpret it and give it a context that makes sense for you and your players.

That is an excellent way to look at it.

 

[mmadsen]

I like a system in which there is some sense of poetic justice: using magic to deal damage and death should be bad for the soul. Making deals with demons can grant you many powers quickly, but at a high cost over the long run. Most magicians should prefer playing it safe (divination, illusion).

Ravenloft, of course, handles this with its Powers Check, and its curse mechanics really nail Poetic Justice. Call of Cthulhu effectively treats all magic is "bad for the soul", but you could home-brew a system with high costs for some spells and low costs for others.