D&D 5E What Level 20 Class Would Win?

[Benjamin Olson]

Eh...I definitely wouldn't waste a PWK on a Druid's wildshape form. I'd probably keep leading them in the sky while casting something like a web, which restrains them and therefore reduces their speed to 0, having them take the roughly 15-20d6 (being optimal). I'd probably then either cast PWK or a high-level damaging spell so for the overflow damage on the next turn. Maybe a heightened Finger of Death?

It's actually pretty easy to grab every single 9th-level spell as a sorcerer if you set out for it. You're probably keeping only the all-star 1st-level spells in your spells-known. Same as the other spells up to 4th or 5th level, so you'll probably won't even need 50% of your spells known for this specific fight. I don't think it's too wise to grab PWK, though, unless you have a specific strategy for it. Then again, if you can get initiative first, a quicken firebolt/PWK could kill a wizard with a +1 con mod.

Waste Power Word Kill on a wild shape? They are DEAD and you have won. I'm pretty sure that is the point of the exercise.

 

[Asisreo]

Waste Power Word Kill on a wild shape? They are DEAD and you have won. I'm pretty sure that is the point of the exercise.

Well, if they die, they revert. If they revert, they go back to the hit points they had in base form, which would be more than 0. Dying as a wildshape doesn't kill you as a Druid.

 

[FarBeyondC]

Well, if they die, they revert. If they revert, they go back to the hit points they had in base form, which would be more than 0. Dying as a wildshape doesn't kill you as a Druid.

You can have hit points and still be dead (gaining 6 levels of Exhaustion, being affected by Power Word Kill, reaching 0 Strength via the Strength Drain ability of a Shadow, etc.).

 

[DND_Reborn]

Removed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

First of all, I'll accept that ruling for the purposes of this thread.

There are a few issues I have.

1. You basically asked the question in such a way as to lead them to your preferred answer. A more neutral question would be a wizard cast fireball at the party from 100ft away, can I use distant spell with counterspell and counter it? I firmly believe the answer to that question, had it came first, would have been different.
2. JC has made some terrible rulings that stood for years until he corrected them years later out of the blue.
3. It also would have been interesting to know if they had intended for counterspell to be able to be used with distant spell to trigger spells cast out to 120 ft or if they had intended the wording to explicitly forbid it.

That is to say, I've came to value JC's opinion less and less over the years - though I still find it interesting. I also find the Twitter medium terrible as neutral non-leading questions are never asked.

1. Considering JC's answers to other tweets about Distant Spell, I think his response would have been the same. He has been adamant about only the range of the spell being effected. The triggering condition is not part of the range.
2. Yeah, he has reversed positions before and sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.
3. The problem with allowing Counterspell to distant spell out to 120 ft is that it makes Sorcerer's supreme casters at anything under 121 feet.

As has been pointed out, 60 feet or less Subtle spell stops a Counter-Counter, and from 61-120 feet, the other caster can't Counter your Counter at all. If I played at a table that played as you're suggesting, I would only ever play a Sorcerer as a caster. The combination is too powerful, especially if the DM allows the caster to know what spell or spell level they are countering/dispelling.

It is like when people think you add your proficiency bonus to a Counterspell or Dispel Magic check against higher level spells. You don't. I've seen way too many groups get that wrong and it makes he spells too powerful.

 

[Hohige]

All 100% tables allows the Distant Counterspell works.
It's a common sense exactly as feat works as standard.

 

[DND_Reborn]

All 100% tables allows the Distant Counterspell works.
It's a common sense exactly as feat works as standard.

Apparently they don't given all the posts, questions, etc. I found when searching about it before I tweeted JC. Most of the responses favored it not working, but I wanted a more "official" response. We have that now. If you don't want to follow it at your table then you simply aren't playing RAW. (Nothing wrong with that as most tables don't play strict RAW for everything anyway, but it is pretty OP and unbalanced given the typical encounter distance at many tables.)

At any rate, we never had it happen at our table, as the scenario simply has never come up. But given the distinction between the requirement for the trigger event not being the actual range of the spell, we wouldn't allow it if it did come up.

Distant spell is still more than versatile and useful enough even taking away a handful of spells that might otherwise have used it. Other than Quicken Spell and Subtle spell, it is the most popular choice IMX.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

So, Power Word Kill against a Wild Shaped Druid would force it to revert if the current form had less than 100 hp, and once exposed you could throw a cantrip at the Druid (assuming your Quickened the PWK).

Power Word Kill would kill them, still. They'd revert to their normal form, but be dead.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Yes, you can have HP remaining and still be "dead". But in this case, you are only "mostly dead."

Wild Shape allows you to revert.

View attachment 122726

So, Power Word Kill against a Wild Shaped Druid would force it to revert if the current form had less than 100 hp, and once exposed you could throw a cantrip at the Druid (assuming your Quickened the PWK).

It would force you to revert to being a lifeless corpse in your Druid form.

Jeremy Crawford tweeted on the subject to that effect.

If a druid wildshapes into a wolf and is targeted with power word kill: dead or alive?

D&D Sage Advice ·

www.sageadvice.eu

 

[DND_Reborn]

Power Word Kill would kill them, still. They'd revert to their normal form, but be dead.

Yep, got it. I was misreading the Wild Shape. It is the same has how a werewolf reverts to its true form when it dies. The text was just clarifying the event. Sorry for the oversight.