What makes a D&D/d20 Campaign Setting great?

[Cam Banks]

I think having draconians, kender, and tinker gnomes helps.

Otherwise, so many settings and supplements wouldn't have borrowed them from Dragonlance. Right? Right?

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Psion]

I think having draconians, kender, and tinker gnomes helps.

Otherwise, so many settings and supplements wouldn't have borrowed them from Dragonlance. Right? Right?

I have a house rule that dimension travelling kender spontaneously explode upon arriving in my campaign setting.

 

[Knightfall]

Robert, I'm convinced that campaign settings need a certain amount of momentum - an "installed base" of continuing players - to survive. They need people to clamor for them, to request their DMs to run them. They need for fans to become emotionally invested in the setting once they start playing it.

And that's what it was like for me and Dragonstar, yet it died a slow painful death. Did d20 Modern hurt it, maybe a little. When it comes to Dragonstar, FFG just didn't seem willing to go to the same lengths they went for Midnight. Even Dawnforge didn't get the support it needed, and I consider that campaign setting to be better than Midnight.

There's a certain amount of nostalgia at work here that continues to power the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk and Dark Sun. There's also a learning curve; if you've been exposed to the Forgotten Realms throughout 1e and 2e, you have a better grasp of its layout and politics than if it were a new setting.

When it comes to the core D&D worlds, I think there will always be fans of those settings. It's a given that rabid fans will remain loyal to their favorite game worlds, no matter what. However, not even the Realms is getting the support that its fans believe it needs, at this point. Eberron has become WotC's new campaign setting of choice, which is obvious from WotC's release schedule for 2006.

And don't get me started about Greyhawk. If it wasn't for Erik Mona and the awesome staff at Paizo then Greyhawk wouldn't get any support at all. (And no, I don't consider Living Greyhawk to be "great" Greyhawk support.)

I think that learning curve has helped Green Ronin's Freeport. "Piratical city" is an easy concept to grasp, and one that really sounds fun; GR just made it easy to keep people interested by producing good quality products.

Freeport also has the benefit of having Green Ronin's staff behind it. Chris Pramas is a business smart and game savvy as they come. I think this is why GR's products are always of excellent quality. However, production value alone doesn't make a d20 Sytem game great. You have to have great content, as well, which is what companies like GR, Malhavoc Press, Goodman Games, and Necromancer Games do on a regular basis.

Mongoose, on the other hand, tends to put out books that I don't want, regardless of "how good their books look". I've heard too many "error-riddled" horror stories to risk buying any of their products. This is why I haven't bought the Conan RPG. Yes, the revised second printing of the core book has been updated, but it sounds like the accessories have just as many errors as the original campaign book. (And I'm not interested in any of Mongoose's other OGL/d20 System games. Period.)

I'm sure there are other companies that have good production value but have missed the mark when it comes to understanding the rules, or they've created a campaign that just doesn't have enough of a mass appeal. Case in point, I never doubted that the Scarred Lands books were of good quality; I just never got into that campaign setting. (And yes, Nightfall, I did try, a little.) I balked at MEG's campaign settings for quite some time, as well, until I took the plunge into Bluffisde.

Cheers!

KF72

 

[Knightfall]

That's a pretty good point too. But then, Bluffside was similar, but failed. I think that this is in large part due to the fact that there was a lot more professional experience behind Freeport, and it shows in the quality of the product.

But still, there's something... nifty... about Bluffside.

Also, in Bluffside's case, the company's management staff went through some really tough times. I'm not sure how sick Hal and Doug became, or what else happened, but from what I heard it was really bad situation, for both of them, for different reasons.

 

[Knightfall]

I have a house rule that dimension travelling kender spontaneously explode upon arriving in my campaign setting.

ROTFL!

 

[Aus_Snow]

So this question has been knocking around in my brain for quite some time. Basicially, I'm wondering what makes a D&D/d20 Campaign Setting stand out. Is it all about originality, or is there more to it than that?

(emphasis mine)

Hardly. And yes, I think there is a lot more to it.

Why do campaigns like the Scarred Lands and Dragonstar fail to last (even with diehard fans), while other campaigns continue to receive company support (i.e. Freeport)? Is it just about timing things right? Or is it more to do with marketing and production value?

Marketing is an incredibly important aspect to it, IMO. That's based only on what I've seen and heard, mind you. I am *not* in the industry, so yeah, 'pure' opinion here.

I think SL still has some love, anyway. . . (?)

Is there such a thing as too many d20 System campaign settings? Also, does a campaign setting being OGL-based instead of just standard d20-based make a difference (i.e. Conan RPG)?

Respectively: possibly; and not that I've seen.

And what would you like to see, in the future, when it comes to the d20 System and the OGL? Basically, what else is there to be done, campaign setting-wise? Is there anything else "new" to be done? And I'm not talking about new licensed games, but "new" campaigns not based on an fantasy/scifi author's IP.

There are a lot of 'old' settings that could be reimagined in any number of ways. That's one path. Also, I think there are plenty of niches yet to be catered to.

As far as basic setting types for d20/OGL gaming go, though? I suppose not. I'll have to think further on that.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Scarred Lands

• S&SS dove into it before any authors had developed any real proficiency with the system. This was a bit of a gambit that had the opportunity to earn them some early market share, but it didn't pay off.
• Overpublished. You mention freeport as "successful"; I think you will find that there are several times as many books published for it. For a third party setting, that was too many books for a setting. That made it too hard for fans to absorb. (I was stunned they went on to make other continents before Ghelspad was really fleshed out.) When asking some fellows why they didn't get into the setting, they relayed that they felt like the setting was too much to buy into. And I can understand why. I'm probably the second most rabid SL fan on this board, but I still have 3 books to get.
• The fact that there was so much material for it meant they were in a position to be hurt real bad by the 3.5 transition. Too much 3.0 material was left untranslated because there is no way they could update all that.
• The breadth of the setting also meant that they had to tap a lot of authors. The setting has a dizzying array of neat details, but it does sort of have a bit of a "too many cooks" feel, and many of the authors tapped weren't up to the design task (and/or the editors didn't do a good enough job catching some unbalanced stuff.)
• The adventures were too long coming, and when they did come, had some painfully bad editorial blunders. Freeport LAUNCHED on an adventure. This made Freeport a far easier setting to get into, by way of comparison.

I think you hit the nail on the head for SL. I love the setting, but at times I felt like it put together in the same way my friends would try and put together a campaign setting:

Ooh, I've got this really cool idea about...
Cool idea! It won't quite fit with what we have started writing but we can put those guys over here, since we haven't written about that place yet.
Ooh, I have another idea...

[*]On a totally different note, the S&SS forums sucked. I think this presented a real barrier to a strong fan community forming.

Sing it, brother!


As for what makes a setting great, originality is important, but is not everything. As Piratecat said, emotional investment is critical - you need people to want to play it.

I also think in this day, with the number of settings that have risen and waned, people need to quickly feel that they can use the setting - no need to wait for the first two supplement books that may publish on time (or at all) before a GM can really use it. Conversely, people need to feel like the setting will get support down the line so their intial investment will continue to have and hopefully increase in value.

 

[Cam Banks]

I have a house rule that dimension travelling kender spontaneously explode upon arriving in my campaign setting.

You're either remarkably pragmatic or really not a lot of fun.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Just_Hal]

Also, in Bluffside's case, the company's management staff went through some really tough times. I'm not sure how sick Hal and Doug became, or what else happened, but from what I heard it was really bad situation, for both of them, for different reasons.

Hi KF1972 and Psion,

Bluffside did not fail as much as a few issues rolled into one put MEG on pretty much permanent hiatus.

Bluffiside and Freeport came out at the same time (literally same week I think), I think that and it being by Chris (who I like) and it being HC hurt Bluffside in general. Then we had monetary issues when my old partner did not add to the funds and so I paid for a lot, we merged with MEG put out some other cool stuff (IMHO) but we always just broke even, then we had 2 distributors not pay us (total I am guessing was around 50k+) and with that my credit was maxed and Doug was unemployed, having heart issues and kids on the way. I have emailed oug a few times on certain things to no avail so............

Just kinda bad luck, bad timing and all that. I enjoyed my time doing RPG stuff and if someone wated me to write fluff or be an art director again I would think about it (where previously I said I wouldn't). I would liek to try and get to GenCon and play, but it runs when my 2 start school and with no $$$ on the line hard to convince the ex to keep em so I can go "play "

I hope that clears up some stuff and rumor has it someone may be working on Bluffside 3.5 but I can neither confirm nor deny that.

 

[Psion]

I hope that clears up some stuff and rumor has it someone may be working on Bluffside 3.5 but I can neither confirm nor deny that.

Very eeenteresting.

Say, you doin' GenCon this year?