What makes good flavor?

[MatthewJHanson]

It used to be that people complained about not enough flavor in D&D books. Now I hear a lot of complaints about too much. Part of this I think, just that you can't please all the people all the time. But I also think that the important thing isn't quantity, it's quality.

That begs the question, just what makes for good flavor?

I started by thinking about my own recent preferences. I highly enjoyed the recent Dragon article on Dreadhold, and came up with a half dozen adventure ideas while reading it. Here's a couple ideas why:

Potential for conflict. (The ever-popular prison break). I think this is probably a pretty big one, since without conflict there would be no adventure.

Secrets. (Just who is in Deep 14. What other abominations lie trapped beneath?) Secrets could be seen as a type of conflict (people want to know vs. people who want to keep secrets hidden), I also like that they suggest possibilities, but still give a DM plenty of room to work with.

So what do you think? What makes you enjoy flavor?

 

[ThirdWizard]

I think many gamers are a really tough crowd and you can't just write about how something works (rules) you have to sell it to them after they've already bought your book. So, if you introduce a new Prestige Class, or what have you, the reader wants the flavor text to not so much tell them what its about but why its so cool that it needs to go into their game.

This is easy with setting material, since the context is already established and the reader is already disposed toward accepting the material, since they presumably use that setting. It's harder in a generic source, though, because you have to make it really seem like this would be a good idea to add to someone's setting. It has to be interesting enough to grab their attention while at the same time being generic, and maleable, enough that they can fit it into their campaign.

This is quite difficult.

Adventure hooks are a good place to start. If I, as a DM, read something and can think of several ways to use something in an adventure then I'm more likely to use something that I have to work with to think of a way to introduce or shoehorn into a roll. Also, artwork is important in this regard as well for many people.

 

[Terwox]

Good flavor isn't really quantifiable. If it was quantifiable, it would cease to be good flavor.

But in a sense, good flavor is essentially something the DM or players read and say "That's really cool" and feel a vague sense of awe and wonder.

That's my take on it. You can have boring conflict and secrets and settings even if they're ripe with a formula for good flavor -- I somewhat feel this is what the Forgotten Realms is. (Yikes, I'm almost starting to troll!)

Anyway, I know that's kind of an ethereal argument -- "you can't define good flavor." You can. But it's a personal thing. Good flavor will have the potential for plot and story and conflict and spectacular stuff, but some DM's have drawn inspiration from things I haven't found inspiring at all.

Ug, what a fluffy post this is! I apologize.

 

[Nyaricus]

Clover, with just a hint of cinnamon.

If not to taste, paprika and lime will do it!

 

[Talic]

Reading it and thinking "hey, that's cool" is maybe 1/3 of good flavor. What specifically makes it? Well that's up to who ever is reading it. Something unique, provided with just a few tantalizing details that are easy to jump from(and just as easy to work around if you choose) definately seems to help.

But to me, the other 2/3 is not so much about what you're reading, but about what pops into your mind while (and after) reading it. For example, the first section of the DMG2 and the sections on character/party backgrounds in the PHB2 especially do that for me. They both had little, often one-line ideas for campaigns, adventures, organizations, character backgrounds, personalities, etc. And each time while reading, each printed idea would spark 2 or 3 ideas of my own.

I'm not sure what caused that, but I love that brainstorming feel in a book, and wish it were a phenomena that would repeat itself more often.

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

Aside-

Which Dragon mag has the Dreadhold info in it?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

It used to be that people complained about not enough flavor in D&D books. Now I hear a lot of complaints about too much. Part of this I think, just that you can't please all the people all the time. But I also think that the important thing isn't quantity, it's quality.

Flexible flavor.

When it comes to classes, leaving the class flexible enough to embrace multiple types of flavor is a good thing. Otherwise, you just have an author trying to impose flavor on players who might otherwise enjoy the class.

Distinguishing between magical and non-magical flavor is very important. The Knight Class and the Eberron Inquisitive are two examples of how not to distinguish their flavor.

Flexible campaign settings.

Eberron is great when it comes to flavor. It's written "in stone", leaving the DM to change it, rather than novel authors. It's also written so large parts of the campaign setting can be ignored if you don't like them. (Sarlona is the top of this list, as psionics always has huge fans and huge enemies.)

You don't like House XYZ? Fine. How much presence do you think they have in the Demon Wastes? That's up to the DM.

You don't like halflings riding dinosaurs? Fine. Don't go near Talenta. They aren't coming to you.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Good flavor isn't really quantifiable. If it was quantifiable, it would cease to be good flavor.

I know there's no single formula for flavor, but I do think that there's probably tendencies that often works, or qualities that good flavor has in common (I think the same thing about art).

Maybe a good thing would be to post some examples of some people's favorite flavoring. (I should probably pick up the PHB II)

Thanks for all those who've replied.

Aside-

Which Dragon mag has the Dreadhold info in it?

Issue #344. It's the most recent I've recieved, and I think it should be on newstands by now. (I think).

 

[Twowolves]

That begs the question, just what makes for good flavor?

Tabasco.

 

[Umbran]

The Tabasco thing makes an interesting point - just as some folks will say that what you get out of Tabasco isn't a flavor so much as the sensation of heat, people sometimes won't agree on what bits are flavor, and what aren't.

We also sometimes confuse "good flavor" for "flavor we can use right now". The game is so immensely flexible, and people do so many different things with it, that is is nigh impossible to write flavor that will work for every individual campaign. That doesn't mean it isn't good, but just that it isn't appropriate for a current project.

I am not sure that "good" is even the right approach. Since we are talking about this with a food analogy, perhaps we need to consider the analogy more closely...

What constitutes a "good" flavor when you cook? Well, it should be full, but not overpowering. It should have some subtleties and undertones, but not so many that it is difficult to integrate into dishes. It has to "play well with others", and it is better if it can be used to good effect without requiring too many special techniques.