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D&D 5E What most needs revision for the (hypothetical) 50th anniversary core books?

Mystic works if they lean into the half-caster angle, which is the approach I would take, in addition to removing Asian specific tropes (other cultures have magical warriors who eschew weapons). Making Subclass a Level 1 choice also would open up the design space to let different Subclasses be different. There are more Subclass possibilities for "Magical Martial Artist" than "Brawler" too. "Brawler" sounds redundant with a Fighter using an unarmed fighting style.
I don't see them making subclasses a level 1 choice

Their reasons for doing still apply, When you're making a character you're already making a choice in race, class, background, skills, equipment, and possibly spells or another class feature. That's a lot
Locking in your character to a subclass before you've even played them is a bit much
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't see them making subclasses a level 1 choice

Their reasons for doing still apply, When you're making a character you're already making a choice in race, class, background, skills, equipment, and possibly spells or another class feature. That's a lot
Locking in your character to a subclass before you've even played them is a bit much
The issue with that in practice, as I heard Mearls talk about in the Happy Fun Hour so many Moons ago, is that they've found that most players pick their Subclass at Level 1 anyways, so all that decision ended up doing was limiting the versatility of some Classes.

I kind of doubt that WotC will make any such radical change, but if I could wave a magical wand and dictate 6E, that's one of the few glaring issues with the game.
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
As Aldarc sez, mystic really goes hand-in-hand with "mystical Asians." Still feels offensive

And "mystic" by itself doesn't give you the idea of a class that punches people. Feels more like an occult wizard
Mystic was the name of the divine healer in DRAGONLANCE SAGA and when they added the monk to 3rd Ed they changed the name from Basic DnD, likely cause "mystic" didn't work

Easier to call it the "brawler" and have one subclass option or choice of features be more monastic, but have other non-Eastern builds that will make it work better in Western Fantasy
“Brawler” is a fighter subclass concept, at most.

Even Martial Artist is much too narrow an idea. The concept is a mystical warrior who can do things other warriors can’t by focusing their inner power to enhance their body and what it can do.

If you remove that, you’ve eliminated the class entirely, and you’re better off just giving fighters an optional feature to use an Unarmored defense AC calculation rather than armor. The Battlemaster with that single change makes an excellent mundane martial artist.
 

The issue with that in practice, as I heard Mearls talk about in the Happy Fun Hour so many Moons ago, is that they've found that most players pick their Sibclass at Lecel 1 anyways, so all that decision ended up doing was limiting the versatility of some Classes.

I kind of doubt that WotC will make any such radical change, but ifnI could wave a magical wand and dictate 6E, that's one of the few glaring issues with the game.
Mearls doesn't work on the RPG anymore so his opinion doesn't matter

Maybe for 6th Ed. But that's so far off its not worth speculating. The changes made for that edition will likely be problems weren't not aware of yet
And it will likely be driven by feedback and public playtesting again. When they start 6th Ed all the current players might vote to keep subclasses at level 2-3 because that feels like DnD to them
 


If you remove that, you’ve eliminated the class entirely, and you’re better off just giving fighters an optional feature to use an Unarmored defense AC calculation rather than armor. The Battlemaster with that single change makes an excellent mundane martial artist.
Guess we should do that then
Problem solved
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
Mearls doesn't work on the RPG anymore so his opinion doesn't matter

Maybe for 6th Ed. But that's so far off its not worth speculating. The changes made for that edition will likely be problems weren't not aware of yet
And it will likely be driven by feedback and public playtesting again. When they start 6th Ed all the current players might vote to keep subclasses at level 2-3 because that feels like DnD to them
In this case, Mearls wasn't offering his opinion, he was reporting on the discoveries from actual play data. And that is unlikely change.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
The issue with that in practice, as I heard Mearls talk about in the Happy Fun Hour so many Moons ago, is that they've found that most players pick their Sibclass at Lecel 1 anyways, so all that decision ended up doing was limiting the versatility of some Classes.

I kind of doubt that WotC will make any such radical change, but ifnI could wave a magical wand and dictate 6E, that's one of the few glaring issues with the game.
In addition to finetuning how race works, if there is one more "eyebrow raising" update that I want for the 2024 consolidation, it is that every class can express their archetype at level 1. (For example, that an Eldritch Knight has no magic at level 1 feels absurd to me. What were the high elves and githyanki doing for all of those years growing up training to be gishes?)

Perhaps, archetype at level 1 can be stealth-errataed by offering various feature swaps at level 1. The same kind of feature-swap options in Tashas that improve the Ranger, and so on, could appear in a future UA to swap in archetype features at level 1.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
In addition to finetuning how race works, if there is one more "eyebrow raising" update that I want for the 2024 consolidation, it is that every class can express their archetype at level 1. (For example, that an Eldritch Knight has no magic at level 1 feels absurd to me. What were the high elves and githyanki doing for all of those years growing up training to be gishes?)

Perhaps, archetype at level 1 can be stealth-errataed by offering various feature swaps at level 1. The same kind of feature-swap options in Tashas that improve the Ranger, and so on, could appear in a future UA to swap in archetype features at level 1.
You'd need 13 or more different verions. different classes get their archetype at different levels & even what they get at 1-3 varies
 

You'd need 13 or more different verions. different classes get their archetype at different levels & even what they get at 1-3 varies
Most classes would only need small adjustments, though - ie paladin could add some customization to Divine Sense by letting you select which three creature types it pings on (with subsets for humanoids), stuff like that.
 

Sithlord

Adventurer
I think concentration needs looked at closely. Not saying removed from the game. But a closer looks at what spells should have concentration.
I think short rests may need some revision.

god I want a wizard archetype that uses meta magic. But that’s more than a revision that’s an extra bell and whistle.
I really think spells like fireball and burning hands should scale an extra 2d6 per addition spell slot used to upcast. They are still doing less than a spell of the same level. Just my opinion.
A nice rework of the ranger is almost universally desired. Making the monk a little more Bruce Lee also.

cantrip damage should be increased every tier.
 

Rikka66

Adventurer
I think any kind of revision would see changes from the current state levels 1-3 are in. I don't think they'd kept the current situation where experienced players are expected to start at level 3 (which I swear the developers have said, but I can't find the quote so maybe someone check me on that) but level 1 (and to a lesser extent 2) are incredibly lethal.
 

Faolyn

Hero
This is why they need to remove or minimize the gods as part of the subclass/archetype choice in the Cleric class. They should probably have three subclasses - melee, buffer/healer and invoker for Cleric, and your god should maybe just determine your bonus spell list or something. Right now the design is in an awkward place where even the default options might not be available/suitable in a given game-world.
I could see a combo of the way they're doing that and what you're suggesting. Continue with domains like they are now (Life, Tempest, War, etc.), with each god granting access to some of them, but they only affect what bonus spells you get. The actual archetypes would be things like melee, buffer, etc. A Melee cleric of a god would have different abilities than a Summoner cleric of the same god, but they might both get the same domain spells anyway.
 

Faolyn

Hero
• Setting (Forgotten Realms as separable setting assumptions, or use Dark Sun instead, or whatever)
I would go with less of a setting and more of a collection of locations instead. Like in Ye Olde Days, before there were any actual official settings but everyone knew about the Village of Hommelet (or however it's spelled; I'm too lazy to look it up). Add in one or more chapters on how to worldbuild (perhaps with a collection of random tables since those are always fun) and suggestions on how to incorporate the included locations into your own world. So such a collection of locations could have a few major cities, several more towns, villages, settlements, and fortresses of various sizes, a bunch of Mysterious Ruins, Dark Forests, Creepy Swamps, and the like. And it could also include things like mercenary groups, weird cults, traveling trader groups, and other factions that could be of interest to the PCs. Then you, the DM, can assemble them like Lego into the world of your choice.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
I think concentration needs looked at closely. Not saying removed from the game. But a closer looks at what spells should have concentration.
I think short rests may need some revision.

god I want a wizard archetype that uses meta magic. But that’s more than a revision that’s an extra bell and whistle.
I really think spells like fireball and burning hands should scale an extra 2d6 per addition spell slot used to upcast. They are still doing less than a spell of the same level. Just my opinion.
A nice rework of the ranger is almost universally desired. Making the monk a little more Bruce Lee also.

cantrip damage should be increased every tier.
Yeah.

I would love for a UA to come out with an item-by-item tweak of all of the spells.

Which spells need concentration definitely needs doublechecking.

Generally, 5e is excellent for having removed broken-overpowered spells. But there are way too many broken-underpowered spells littering the spell lists. Some spells work better if available sooner at a lower slot. A legacy spell like Legend Lore way up in slot 5 seems unworthy of the slot when the History skill obsoletes it. Skill checks have replaced many spells. Some spells need a rewrite, and some spells might as well be removed. It is probably better to normalize the damage of Fireball spell in line with the amount of damage of other damage spells. Maybe the advantage of the fire damage type is it tends to have a wider area of effect that targets more creatures. Mobility spells need levels that correspond better to how powerful the spell actually is. And so on.

Cantrip damage needs to be more effective at higher levels − the damage is low to begin with, and resistances make even this become almost negligible. I would like if the tiers increased fivefold, corresponding to the proficiency bonus levels: 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-20.

Spells need a clean-up.
 


Faolyn

Hero
Easier to call it the "brawler" and have one subclass option or choice of features be more monastic, but have other non-Eastern builds that will make it work better in Western Fantasy
Problem is, brawler suggests an undisciplined fighter, like a bar brawler. Which is the exact opposite of what a monk actually is. Level Up is going with adept and has replaced ki with exertion (which all martials get; adepts just get unique abilities on which to spend exertion).

But if the purpose of a monk is to be an unarmed fighter, then maybe (in 6e, not 5.5e) it just needs to be a different type of regular fighter. One that gets its bonuses to unarmed combat and movement instead of using melee or missile weapons.
 

Faolyn

Hero
The issue with that in practice, as I heard Mearls talk about in the Happy Fun Hour so many Moons ago, is that they've found that most players pick their Subclass at Level 1 anyways, so all that decision ended up doing was limiting the versatility of some Classes.

I kind of doubt that WotC will make any such radical change, but if I could wave a magical wand and dictate 6E, that's one of the few glaring issues with the game.
I would actually make subclasses at 2nd level across the board. But that's because those 1-level dips (usually in warlock for EB) annoy the heck out of me.
 

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