Captain NeMo
First Post
I've been tempted to ban a lot of spells lately, in particular raise dead and co, along with those low level spells that pretty much negate the need for certain skills (knock and jump coming to mind).
What (PHB) Spells have you banned/altered?
- Thread starter Captain NeMo
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Spatzimaus
First Post
Well, personally I haven't had problems with knock, but that's mainly because when I throw something like that at the players, it's never just one lock or one door.
As for jump, the only reason the spell is so powerful compared to the skill is that the skill is just plain weak. On a skill point-by-skill point basis, it's just not worth the expenditure of points. Frankly, I wish they had rolled Jump, Climb, Swim, etc. into one skill (call it "Athletics" and change Endurance to its Skill Focus). Spells like jump would only modify one specific type of Athletic check, but now the skill wouldn't be hopelessly outclassed.
But to the original point:
> We really tweaked the positive/negative energy spells.
All negative-energy spells (harm, inflict * wounds, etc.) gain the [Evil] subtype, and positive-energy spells (heal, cure * wounds, etc.) gain the [Good] subtype. So, good Clerics can't use Harm without violating their alignment.
House Rule: domain spells aren't affected by the alignment limitation; an evil god might give the Healing domain to his evil priests for a help them do more evil.
We also gave the inflict spells and harm to Druids as level 1/3/4/5/7 spells, so that they weren't biased towards positive energy so much.
As a minor bonus, the inflict spells give half the damage dealt to the caster as temporary HP that last 1 minute. (Not if it was used to heal undead, of course.)
Others, off the top of my head:
> The polymorph spells roll on a table identical to the teleport spell, to see how close you got to the intended form. The further "off target" you are, the weaker your resulting form is (or in baleful polymorph, the stronger it is).
> We've tweaked the greater magic weapon spell a few times. The version we use now raises the enhancement of the weapon until its cost-equivalent enhancement is now +1 per 4 levels. That is, if a 16th level caster casts GMW, it makes +4 items; when cast on a +1 keen shocking longsword, it raises the enhancement only to +2, since that'd make it into a weapon that costs what a +4 would.
> detect evil/good/law/chaos don't trigger for creatures only from alignment; an evil creature has to actually be in the process of committing a clearly evil action for his "evil" aura to be detectable. That is, the first line in the table ("Evil creature") doesn't happen nearly as often; it'll detect aligned outsiders, clerics of an aligned deity, and certain magical items as normal, though.
As for jump, the only reason the spell is so powerful compared to the skill is that the skill is just plain weak. On a skill point-by-skill point basis, it's just not worth the expenditure of points. Frankly, I wish they had rolled Jump, Climb, Swim, etc. into one skill (call it "Athletics" and change Endurance to its Skill Focus). Spells like jump would only modify one specific type of Athletic check, but now the skill wouldn't be hopelessly outclassed.
But to the original point:
> We really tweaked the positive/negative energy spells.
All negative-energy spells (harm, inflict * wounds, etc.) gain the [Evil] subtype, and positive-energy spells (heal, cure * wounds, etc.) gain the [Good] subtype. So, good Clerics can't use Harm without violating their alignment.
House Rule: domain spells aren't affected by the alignment limitation; an evil god might give the Healing domain to his evil priests for a help them do more evil.
We also gave the inflict spells and harm to Druids as level 1/3/4/5/7 spells, so that they weren't biased towards positive energy so much.
As a minor bonus, the inflict spells give half the damage dealt to the caster as temporary HP that last 1 minute. (Not if it was used to heal undead, of course.)
Others, off the top of my head:
> The polymorph spells roll on a table identical to the teleport spell, to see how close you got to the intended form. The further "off target" you are, the weaker your resulting form is (or in baleful polymorph, the stronger it is).
> We've tweaked the greater magic weapon spell a few times. The version we use now raises the enhancement of the weapon until its cost-equivalent enhancement is now +1 per 4 levels. That is, if a 16th level caster casts GMW, it makes +4 items; when cast on a +1 keen shocking longsword, it raises the enhancement only to +2, since that'd make it into a weapon that costs what a +4 would.
> detect evil/good/law/chaos don't trigger for creatures only from alignment; an evil creature has to actually be in the process of committing a clearly evil action for his "evil" aura to be detectable. That is, the first line in the table ("Evil creature") doesn't happen nearly as often; it'll detect aligned outsiders, clerics of an aligned deity, and certain magical items as normal, though.
airwalkrr
Adventurer
I have altered one set of spells in my campaign: those that raise your character from the dead. Raise dead costs 2 points of Con (cannot be restored) instead of a lost level and requires a DC 5 Constitution check or the character cannot be raised. Resurrection has the same Con cost but a DC 10 Constitution check. True Resurrection however has no Con loss or Constitution check.
Three_Haligonians
First Post
My group has seriously mucked around with haste since we feel a spell that makes you go faster should help more than just the fighters:
The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
A hasted creature can, each turn, choose to gain an extra attack, or an extra spell. When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action).
Instead the creature can choose to gain an extra spell. As a full round action, a hasted creature may cast two spells, only one of which may have a casting time of more than 1 standard action. (ie. a hasted wizard may, as a full round action cast Summon Monster, and Hold Person). A quickened spell may not be used in combination with this effect. This effect also applies to characters who use spell-like abilities.
A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. Any condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.
All of the hasted creature’s modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 ft, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for increased speed.
Multiple haste effects don’t stack. Haste dispels and counters Slow.
Material component: A shaving of licorice root.
On a side note:
So there is no point in ever casting Resurrection?
J from Three Haligonians
The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
A hasted creature can, each turn, choose to gain an extra attack, or an extra spell. When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action).
Instead the creature can choose to gain an extra spell. As a full round action, a hasted creature may cast two spells, only one of which may have a casting time of more than 1 standard action. (ie. a hasted wizard may, as a full round action cast Summon Monster, and Hold Person). A quickened spell may not be used in combination with this effect. This effect also applies to characters who use spell-like abilities.
A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. Any condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.
All of the hasted creature’s modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 ft, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for increased speed.
Multiple haste effects don’t stack. Haste dispels and counters Slow.
Material component: A shaving of licorice root.
On a side note:
airwalkrr said:
So there is no point in ever casting Resurrection?
J from Three Haligonians
Banning spells is like stealing away class abilities. If any of my co-dms ever tried to ban spells Id ban feats that allow fighters to improved their combat skills. True balance comes only from good DMing and mutual respect between players and DMs. If you lack these two key things you may as well stop playing altogether.
Sound of Azure
Contemplative Soul
dante58701 said:
While I agree to a certain extent, there are some campaigns where it is better to remove some spells rather than ruin the verisimilitude of the setting.
I usually give the players something else to compensate (even if it is completely unrelated).
For my upcoming game I've removed all travel spells because I want to emphasise travelling and the comradeship of journeying. It also places more importance on the artifact monoliths that actually allow instantaneous transportation.
Shieldhaven
Explorer
I've mucked around with teleport, so that it can only take you to specific teleport beacons that have been set up in various parts of the world. (Theoretically the PCs could set one up in any home base that they liked.) You can teleport away from anything, as before. In exchange for this massive reduction of power, I've done away with the off-target danger.
The setting itself builds up a great deal of importance around 5th level spells, referring to 9th level spellcasters as "masters" who are owed exceptional respect and privilege. Spells of 6th level and above were outlawed by the characters' home country for a complex set of reasons, with the sole exception of plane shift. The idea here is to take the Injunction from Sep's Tales of Wyre and put my own spin on it.
The rest of my mucking about with spells... well, it's too extensive to describe briefly. Suffice to say that elementalists (based loosely on shugenja) are the only casters in the setting that get spells up to 9th level. They choose three elements out of six (Air, Fire, Metal, Stone, Water, and Wood), and prepare spells (like a magister from AU/AE) from that list. I've built spell lists for each element, and so forth. It's my grand experiment in screwing around with D&D rules, and it's been lots of fun.
Haven
The setting itself builds up a great deal of importance around 5th level spells, referring to 9th level spellcasters as "masters" who are owed exceptional respect and privilege. Spells of 6th level and above were outlawed by the characters' home country for a complex set of reasons, with the sole exception of plane shift. The idea here is to take the Injunction from Sep's Tales of Wyre and put my own spin on it.
The rest of my mucking about with spells... well, it's too extensive to describe briefly. Suffice to say that elementalists (based loosely on shugenja) are the only casters in the setting that get spells up to 9th level. They choose three elements out of six (Air, Fire, Metal, Stone, Water, and Wood), and prepare spells (like a magister from AU/AE) from that list. I've built spell lists for each element, and so forth. It's my grand experiment in screwing around with D&D rules, and it's been lots of fun.
Haven
reanjr
First Post
Spells in my campaigns generally only get banned if abused (for instance, if the caster is consistently memorizing a spell in 4 slots, there is something wrong). I am more likely to nerf the effect than completely remove it though.
A couple I have removed/nerfed in the past:
Ruin the Adven... I mean, Find the Path (this one can spoil so many different scenarios, it is often just not worth having around)
Legend Lore (see Ruin the Adventure)
Teleport, Greater Teleport
A couple I have removed/nerfed in the past:
Ruin the Adven... I mean, Find the Path (this one can spoil so many different scenarios, it is often just not worth having around)
Legend Lore (see Ruin the Adventure)
Teleport, Greater Teleport
Darren Ravenshaw
First Post
There are very few spells I have banned, out of all the spells in the PHB, CA, SC, LM i have only banned 4 spells. Of the others that I didn't like I made some adjustments to, with most of them being simple adjustments.
The Jump spell is as it is because being required to make a Jump skill check is often the same as making a Save or Die saving throw. Plus there are other spells available that can be used to accomplish the same thing with better results at higher levels, and the higher the level the less use the Jump skill let alone the spell get. Why bother with a +10, +20, or +30 to a Jump check that might fail when you can Levitate, Spider Climb, Tree Shape, Fly, Dimension Door, Stone Shape, Summon Monster/Nature's Ally, etc.
The Knock spell is there to back up the Rogue if he fails his skill check, if the group doesn't have a Rogue, if something needs to be opened quickly, etc. Instead of banning it just change it so that a Caster Level check(DC equal to Open Lock DC) is required instead of it automatically working.
As for Raise Dead and its ilk, I've made similar adjustment as Airwalkrr, along with making it some what harder to die, and my group has found it keeps Death a thing to be feared, yet something that doesn't ruin all the time and effort they put into their character. Removing it makes the game a very grim game, do so only if your players agree with the change.
The Jump spell is as it is because being required to make a Jump skill check is often the same as making a Save or Die saving throw. Plus there are other spells available that can be used to accomplish the same thing with better results at higher levels, and the higher the level the less use the Jump skill let alone the spell get. Why bother with a +10, +20, or +30 to a Jump check that might fail when you can Levitate, Spider Climb, Tree Shape, Fly, Dimension Door, Stone Shape, Summon Monster/Nature's Ally, etc.
The Knock spell is there to back up the Rogue if he fails his skill check, if the group doesn't have a Rogue, if something needs to be opened quickly, etc. Instead of banning it just change it so that a Caster Level check(DC equal to Open Lock DC) is required instead of it automatically working.
As for Raise Dead and its ilk, I've made similar adjustment as Airwalkrr, along with making it some what harder to die, and my group has found it keeps Death a thing to be feared, yet something that doesn't ruin all the time and effort they put into their character. Removing it makes the game a very grim game, do so only if your players agree with the change.
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