What Should Be Done With Psionics?

[Moon_Goddess]

My one request. The one that I think alot of people would enjoy seeing I doubt I'll get.

I want Psionic powers flexable enough there is no "Spell list" of powers.

If you have telepathy, you've got telepathy, and some rules for what it can do and how it gets more powerful over levels. The Force is the right direction. I want powers not effects.

This creates a good mechanical difference between magic and psi. Magic creates the same effect over and over. Psi would be tools to create effects, used in different ways. And no, nothing is impossible to balance. Not if they start now while they are still building the core.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yes, the fantasy-inspiration for psionics is from Indian Yogis. See: Rolemaster. If anything, the "Changing/altering body" type of powers is directly inspired fro mit.

I think that's an anachronistic and inaccurate assumption. Rolemaster's particular brand of psionics may be inspired by Indian Yogis, but all fantasy psionics? Have you ever read a fantasy novel where people had psionic-style abilities as opposed to arcane-style ones? (or the even-more-rarely-seen divine-style ones).

In the 1970s, psychic powers were huge, absolutely huge. Thanks to Uri Geller and other frauds, the idea of "the psychic" was all over the place. AD&D 1E latched on to this, stealing the entirely sci-fi term "psionics", and modelling it's powers strictly on sci-fi psychic powers.

It certainly didn't base it's abilities on "Indian Mystics" - Maybe it should have done, but it didn't. So we've had fantasy psionics for a long time - in fact I'd be surprised if the first time they appeared in any fantasy product was Rolemaster. Equally, since the 1970s, we've had fantasy novels which included powers best described as "psionics" or psychic powers - Again, these all seem much more focused around sci-fi-based psionic ideas re-rendered in an entirely fantasy way, as magic (with no reference to science). I strongly suspect you've not come across these, which leads to your apparent belief that fantasy psionics starts and finishes with Rolemaster.

Further, Yogis have had absolute every possibly magical ability attributed to them at one time or another - there is simpy nothing that someone hasn't claimed a Yogi could do, which makes them a poor starting place, I'd suggest. In the end, when people say "psionics" they don't think of Yogis mediating for enlightenment, they think of telepathic and telekinetic psychics and superheroes in the Western sense, albeit often with shaved heads, crystals and ectoplasm bumping around. Thus I think that makes for a better starting place. Take out the psuedo-science, yes, but take out the "Eastern" junk with it, I say.

You're right about psuedo-science, you didn't say that, that's just how I read it, and I retract any implication that you are a leet kiddy, but I just seriously loathe wuxia-style "three word names" for powers, regardless, and I don't think that would be in any way an improvement.

 

[Cadfan]

I always assumed that psionics was modeled on comic books.

I... think there's a more solid foundation for that than for any other explanation.

I'm ok with that. I just want it done right. A telekinetic is not a pyrokinetic, and a character shouldn't have both powers. And psionics shouldn't be magic with a new casting mechanic. It should be something genuinely different, but still with a new casting mechanic.

 

[blargney the second]

I quite like the 3.5 implementation of psionics. Between augmentable powers and psionic focus, there is a lot of customizability, flexibility, and staying power. They'll have to do something special with psionics in 4e to top that one. Fortunately, the current system is a very solid jumping-off point.
-blarg

 

[johnnype]

I've enjoyed the 3.5 incarnation of psionics and agree that it is a solid jumping off point however there are a few issues that need to be addressed in order to better incorporate them with the rest of the rules.

First and foremost psionic use by NPC's and monsters is a very big issue IMO. The best example I can think of is an adventure that appeared in Dungeon magazine a year or so ago where the party confronts a Mind Flayer. It bugged the living daylights out of me that the Mind Flayer used magic and not psionics all because the editors didn't like incorporating non-core material into an adventure. In addition, and this is a fair argument, James Jacobs stated in a thread that making the MF psionic would greatly unbalance the encounter as exchanging the MF's wizard levels for psion levels would increase his CR beyond anything the PC's could handle. I think the crux of the issue is that psionic NPC's and monsters start every encounter with a full count of psionic power points and only the single encounter to spend them on whereas a psionic PC of the same level needs to make his power point last the entire day. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED! The only solution I've seen was a small paragraph in Complete Psionics where it suggested the DM cut the power points in half. That's little more than a band aid.

Like the OP suggested there may be solutions for this with the new power source rules that have been mentioned. Only time will tell.

 

[johnnype]

Give me "Boil the Core" "Thief of Clarity" and "Flesh of the Troll" if you must. Make the powers sound cool, not like I'm reading a text book.

I kinda like this idea. In fact we should do it for 3.5 regardless. It's just fluff and color but I think it can add a lot of flavor to a setting. You could even come up with different names depending on where the psion learned the power.

The Exalted RPG has names like this for their various powers.

 

[Abstraction]

Sorcerers shoot Psions in the head and take their stuff.

QFT!
Seriously, keep your psionics expansions out of my core book expansions.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The Exalted RPG has names like this for their various powers.

It certainly does.

<slams head into table repeatedly>

 

[CleverNickName]

I think the crux of the issue is that psionic NPC's and monsters start every encounter with a full count of psionic power points and only the single encounter to spend them on whereas a psionic PC of the same level needs to make his power point last the entire day. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED!

This is a problem with all NPC casters, not just psi users. And I agree, it needs to be fixed.

 

[SteveC]

If I can take a page from Rolemaster (which 4E seems to be doing a bit of as far as its power sources) I'd call psionics "mentalism.." In the Rolemaster paradigm, you had the following power sources:

Arms: Mundane Training and skill. In 4E this is the new Arms power source.
Essence: The power of a universal force of energy created by all living things. In 4E this is the Arcane power source.
Channeling: The power of the Essence of powerful beings (i.e., the gods) that they send to followers. In 4E this is the Divine power source.
Mentalism: the mentalist taps into the essence power contained within themselves. In effect they become tiny little gods. In 4E this is the Psionic power source.

You get some very interesting classes that combine the different power sources, which is something I would expect to see prestige classes using (e.g., the 4th Edition Mystic Theurge).

Rolemaster also has the Arcane power, which is the primal force of magic behind the other power sources. That's another power source I'd expect to see in D&D in an expansion.

The differences in what you can do with a different power source in Rolemaster make for very different character types, and they make mentalists (psions) very different from other casters. Mentalism tends to be centered on the caster himself, being a very personal type of power. You see almost no "blastem!" powers using Mentalism, but enhancement and manipulation of the self is their stock and trade. You also see a lot of powers that attack a target's mind directly, such as stuns, mind controls and that sort of thing.

I think that would be a very interesting take on spell casting: making psions more single target/self focused makes them different than arcane or divine characters in a major way.

Just my thoughts...

--Steve