D&D General What Should Magic Be Able To Do, From a Gameplay Design Standpoint?

[Reynard]

If magic is not a science, it could easily develop alongside but independent of technology.

 

[Corinnguard]

Arcane magic would almost have to be a science. Through trial and error, an arcane spellcaster would have to figure out which words of power, hand gestures, and material components could work together to produce the desired effect. They would also be trying to figure out new ways to cast old spells.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I've always struggled thematically with that take, not so much because of what it says about magic, but what it says about about technology. It's not reducible to a domain the same way magic is; tech is just combining known properties in useful ways. In settings where you try to put it alongside but separate from magic conceptually, you tend to end up just making into steel colored magic (or alternately you generally need to put magic behind a masquerade, or make it recent).

struggling to identify what it is that you're saying here, is this an 'any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic' point?

Magic is inevitably going to fuse with technology after a certain level of ubiquity.

i guess that's true, but you can still have magitech function differently from casting that makes both have different benefits, a globe of invulnerability might be invoked differently from a 'barrier generator' even if they produce the same 10ft radius sphere that protects from below 5th level effects,

globe of invulnerability
action to cast.
lasts up to 10 rounds, concentration.
requires 6th level spell slot.
upcastable.
can recast spell immediately after it breaks on your next turn.
fixed location.

barrier generator
bonus action to use.
lasts 1+d4 rounds.
requires +8 flat bonus in Tech skill.
set level.
recharges after 2x(the d4's duration of last use) rounds.
centre of effect is a physical object that can be carried or placed.

like, see how both of those have different benefits and drawbacks (this is just an example please disregard any significant imbalance in my choice of effects).

 

[TheSword]

By Line attacks I mean things like 'Move up to your speed in a straight line, bypassing any creature. Make a single attack roll against any number of creatures you pass through or within your reach'

At higher level it might be that:

-No sell any amount of damage

-Literally just teleport a short distance when in shadows

-Steal someone's skills.ability just through sheer capability

- AoE disarm, like 60 ft+ range

-Not high level, but I think rogues and rangers and monks should be able to air dash

-Auto-crit/Auto-hit

-Even somethig purely mechanical as before each attack they can make a half-speed move

-Counter spell attacks with arrows as a reaction--an opposed roll if the fighter wins it's countered

-The fighter melee attacks have a 15ft range baseline.

-If you succeed a ref/str/con save against a spell or effect made by another creature, make a counter attack ignoring range.

-As long as you make one continue movement action, you don't fall to the ground in the air or sink.

Sounds like you want to play and eldritch knight/bladesinger/Fighter-Wizard. Most of those could be options for you then

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I just say what i don't like:

Spells like suggestion that are just too mighty or divination that gives too specific answers.

 

[mamba]

To me, magic is technology. So if the game is going to have the ability to allow spellcasters to cast spells at 7th, 8th, 9th levels of power... then there's really nothing that shouldn't be able to be accomplished via magic.

agreed, I am all for removing 6th level and up spells.. and pare the rest down a lot too

 

[Stormonu]

Magic should never be a replacement for a good ol' blaster at your side.

Meaning, it should give the skill-less some ability, but an expert in the skill should run rings about someone who is using magic. Things like a fly spell lets you get around airborne, but you'll never fly as good as a dragon or aarakokra. Invisibility makes you unseen, but you'll never match a same or higher level's rogue's Stealth. That sort of thing.

Otherwise, the sky's the limit on what it could do. BUT, it should also have a cost associated with it - the better the magic, the more it demands. Haste's aging, Shout rupturing your heart if you use it to much and like. Magic should have a price to pay for being a "shortcut" to greater power, not necessarily the first thing you reach for when you have a problem. I want players to think twice and lean towards doing something mundanely before relying on magic to do the same thing.

 

[Pedantic]

struggling to identify what it is that you're saying here, is this an 'any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic' point?

Other way around. Technology is compositionally different from magic. Issuing a worker with a mage hand rod to get hard to reach items is a technological use of magic. Magic is about some kind of situational alternative to physics, technology is about finding useful applications of principles, and doesn't actually care about the source of those principles.

i guess that's true, but you can still have magitech function differently from casting that makes both have different benefits, a globe of invulnerability might be invoked differently from a 'barrier generator' even if they produce the same 10ft radius sphere that protects from below 5th level effects,

globe of invulnerability
action to cast.
lasts up to 10 rounds, concentration.
requires 6th level spell slot.
upcastable.
can recast spell immediately after it breaks on your next turn.
fixed location.

barrier generator
bonus action to use.
lasts 1+d4 rounds.
requires +8 flat bonus in Tech skill.
set level.
recharges after 2x(the d4's duration of last use) rounds.
centre of effect is a physical object that can be carried or placed.

like, see how both of those have different benefits and drawbacks (this is just an example please disregard any significant imbalance in my choice of effects).

This is the "steel colored magic" option I was talking about. That's just a thematic gloss on what is effectively a different magic system.

 

[Corinnguard]

Otherwise, the sky's the limit on what it could do. BUT, it should also have a cost associated with it - the better the magic, the more it demands. Haste's aging, Shout rupturing your heart if you use it to much and like. Magic should have a price to pay for being a "shortcut" to greater power, not necessarily the first thing you reach for when you have a problem. I want players to think twice and lean towards doing something mundanely before relying on magic to do the same thing.

They could always bring back nonlethal damage for every time a spellcaster casts a spell. Especially a spell they are not ready for.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Sounds like you want to play and eldritch knight/bladesinger/Fighter-Wizard. Most of those could be options for you then

while i might not agree with all their listed desires i think it's a poor response to someone who said 'here are the things i want martials to be capable of' with 'it sounds like you need to be playing a spellcaster'