D&D General What Should Magic Be Able To Do, From a Gameplay Design Standpoint?

1. This means that your choice to take extra risks hurts not just yourself, but also your team. So now other classes only risk themselves, but typically benefit everyone, while spellcasters necessarily risk everyone but may or may not benefit anyone.
Yep. That's just what I want. High risk, high reward, for pretty much all involved rather than just the caster. Release the hounds of chaos! :)

And friendly fire can provide all kinds of roleplaying opportunities of the not-so-friendly sort, and I'm just fine with this. Lanefan the character, for example, puts it this way:

"Hit me with your blast effects and I'll be comin' for you next. And when you see me coming you might have time for one spell; you'd better make it good 'cause you ain't gonna get a second one, and this sword o' mine* really reeeally likes killing mages."

* - wizardslayer longsword, +2 usually but +5 and double damage vs wizards, commissioned specifically in response to getting friendly-fire fried a few times too often.
 

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By Line attacks I mean things like 'Move up to your speed in a straight line, bypassing any creature. Make a single attack roll against any number of creatures you pass through or within your reach'

At higher level it might be that:

-No sell any amount of damage

-Literally just teleport a short distance when in shadows

-Steal someone's skills.ability just through sheer capability

- AoE disarm, like 60 ft+ range

-Not high level, but I think rogues and rangers and monks should be able to air dash

-Auto-crit/Auto-hit

-Even somethig purely mechanical as before each attack they can make a half-speed move

-Counter spell attacks with arrows as a reaction--an opposed roll if the fighter wins it's countered

-The fighter melee attacks have a 15ft range baseline.

-If you succeed a ref/str/con save against a spell or effect made by another creature, make a counter attack ignoring range.

-As long as you make one continue movement action, you don't fall to the ground in the air or sink.
Somewhere here the aggregate of all this leaves D&D behind and becomes a supers game. Fine for that genre, not for D&D.
 


Yep. That's just what I want. High risk, high reward, for pretty much all involved rather than just the caster. Release the hounds of chaos! :)
Are you aware that this tends to make other players resent the person doing the releasing? Because if you aren't, you should be.

And friendly fire can provide all kinds of roleplaying opportunities of the not-so-friendly sort, and I'm just fine with this. Lanefan the character, for example, puts it this way:

"Hit me with your blast effects and I'll be comin' for you next. And when you see me coming you might have time for one spell; you'd better make it good 'cause you ain't gonna get a second one, and this sword o' mine* really reeeally likes killing mages."

* - wizardslayer longsword, +2 usually but +5 and double damage vs wizards, commissioned specifically in response to getting friendly-fire fried a few times too often.
Yeah, so, that? That almost always leads to MASSIVE player resentment on both sides. Like it's one of the most damaging things that can happen in most games. Even pawn-stance games are not somehow immune to the "you messed me up, I'm upset you now" problem. Hiding behind the cover of "it's just RP" or the like has absolutely no effect on how plenty of players feel about harms intentionally caused by other players at the table. (Because uh...yeah in their eyes that's 100% pulling the bovine feces "It's what my character would do!!!" excuse for being an a-hole to your buddies. And I can't say I disagree.)

It's one of the biggest reasons why D&D has pretty much exclusively nixed PVP (or CVC or whatever you want to call it)--because it creates far, far more negative feelings than positive ones, because it leads to many more failed campaigns, because it risks tearing apart groups for the off chance that the flames might be cool to look at.
 

What, you've never heard of molecular gastronomy?
I would argue that cooking--like brewing and baking--is something which actively defies the art vs science distinction.

It has many characteristics of art: aesthetic value is of immense importance, pattern/symmetry and variation/divergence are high concerns, different people may (dis)like or (dis)value different things, and there are a wide variety of traditions that one cannot meaningfully put on a commensurate axis of comparison.

But it has many characteristics of science: reproducible effects, building up observational data, creating admixtures of specific components (often in specific ratios), refining technique, collecting data, testing different approaches, etc.

To say that it is more art than science dismisses the immense utility that scientific understanding can bring to the process: what things can be preserved easily or require special storage or care, ways that the same chemical reaction can occur faster or more effectively if other ingredients are added, precise temperatures and durations to improve quality or safety or quantity, etc. But of course to call it more science than art is to basically say that there is a "correct" way to make any given dish, which is silly, and to say that one could in some way quantify universal standards for cooking, which is patently ridiculous.

And, to loop things back to D&D and my earlier comment on balance, that's how I see encounter design as well. It is equal parts art and science, IF the mechanics actually do the work of giving you that science. Just as baking and brewing and cooking are impoverished by forcing a person to work ONLY with intuition and guesswork, never allowing them to develop any scientific understanding of what they're doing, encounter design is impoverished by forcing DMs to use a "system" that is frequently wrong, almost totally unreliable, and little better than mere guesswork. Having the tool of a highly effective, generally-reliable encounter-building system enables more, not less; it helps avoid pitfalls (or pratfalls) and supports DMs trying to tailor for a specific experience (and, as 4thcore showed, it's entirely compatible with brutally hard, no-holds-barred challenges.) When coupled with the aforementioned Nastier Specials rules, which function like extra spice, extra kick for your encounters if you desire it, there's very little you can't do.

You can always decide not to add more pepper. Believe me when I say, you can't decide to take it away. (I once had a pepper pot pop open while I was adding some...I fished as much out as I could, but eating the soup I'd made was miserable.)
 

And friendly fire can provide all kinds of roleplaying opportunities of the not-so-friendly sort, and I'm just fine with this. Lanefan the character, for example, puts it this way:
The first PC death in my Greyhawk game was the result of friendly fire. One player decided it was a good idea to use fire to get out of the web they were all entangled in. Too bad one of the PCs was on her third death roll save.
 

Are you aware that this tends to make other players resent the person doing the releasing? Because if you aren't, you should be.
Characters resenting characters = / = players resenting players.

If this becomes untrue, get different players.
Yeah, so, that? That almost always leads to MASSIVE player resentment on both sides. Like it's one of the most damaging things that can happen in most games. Even pawn-stance games are not somehow immune to the "you messed me up, I'm upset you now" problem. Hiding behind the cover of "it's just RP" or the like has absolutely no effect on how plenty of players feel about harms intentionally caused by other players at the table. (Because uh...yeah in their eyes that's 100% pulling the bovine feces "It's what my character would do!!!" excuse for being an a-hole to your buddies. And I can't say I disagree.)
See above.

Also, for me "it's what my character would do" is the natural (and expected) result of good-faith play.
It's one of the biggest reasons why D&D has pretty much exclusively nixed PVP (or CVC or whatever you want to call it)--because it creates far, far more negative feelings than positive ones, because it leads to many more failed campaigns, because it risks tearing apart groups for the off chance that the flames might be cool to look at.
My rebuttal here is that you become stronger by going through the wars and coming out the other side than by avoiding them and hoping they'll go away.

(it occurs to me this tangential discussion might better fit in the "what D&D is bad at" thread - iwhether or not D&D is good at supporting CvC play)
 


In the context of PC spellcasters, I think that magic should be able to do anything. This is a fantasy game, and you should be able to let your imagination run wild.

I'm just not very interested in magic that emulates other classes. I don't want to be a wizard that picks locks and disarms traps with ~☆ MaGiCk ♧~, I want to have my own role.
 


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