D&D (2024) what should the wizard's subclasses be?

[Jfdlsjfd]

i suggested this in the survivor companion thread a bit back but more relevant to this discussion

The Specialist: further reduces capacity for learning/casting from banned spell schools than standard in exchange for bonuses to learning/casting from a specific school(s).
The Generalist: removes limitations for learning banned schools in exchange for mid-tier access across the board.
The Librarian: reduced number of spell slots in exchange for extra knowledge proficiencies and bonuses to knowledge checks.
The Researcher: low number of spells inherently known but reduced costs to transcribing new spells and creating spell scrolls.
The Pioneer: limited access to metamagics and/or divine/primal magics.
The Battlemage: focus on combat magics, armour proficiencies and war casting.
The Supporter: limited combat magics learnt but large number and access to utility, ritual and support spells.

The Quadratic: all of the above.

 

[Lojaan]

Uuuummmmmm I like;

• War Wizard (battle magic focus)
• Illusionist (not just illusion but all rogue/trickery)
• Necromancer (a solid concept and too fun to leave out)
• Bladesinger

 

[Incenjucar]

Perhaps something to reverse some of the core issues with the class.

Subclass that allows allies to function as familiars so spells can be cast through them, making them strategically relevant.

Subclass that can spontaneously burn spells memorized and slots to provide buffs to allies based on the spell type.

Subclass that can charge spells to be harder to resist if allies can keep a target locked down.

Subclass that can give spells to others to use like scrolls.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The summoner is pretty much what the words "sorcerer" and "sorcery" mean.

Ehhhhh...not really, but sort of? "Sorcery" mostly meant reading (and influencing) the future. "Sorcerer" does have some associations with calling up spirits, but still retains more force in terms of casting lots than calling up soldiers. Think the kind of stuff Prospero does in The Tempest, where it is implied that Prospero himself has almost no mojo, and instead that it is spirits bound to his service which perform the various magical deeds.

Ironically, "wizard" by comparison is generally the less powerful of the two in fiction and historical usage. A sorcerer was a powerful, usually evil, practitioner of magic. A wizard could go either way and tended to be more limited. D&D has so successfully inverted this that it can be hard for those who grew up with D&D to think of it that way.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Perhaps something to reverse some of the core issues with the class.

Subclass that allows allies to function as familiars so spells can be cast through them, making them strategically relevant.

Subclass that can spontaneously burn spells memorized and slots to provide buffs to allies based on the spell type.

Subclass that can charge spells to be harder to resist if allies can keep a target locked down.

Subclass that can give spells to others to use like scrolls.

In order, these sound to me like

Divination (or possibly Conjuration at a stretch)
Transmutation and/or Enchantment
Illusion and/or Enchantment
Enhanced Order of Scribes

 

[Yaarel]

Ehhhhh...not really, but sort of? "Sorcery" mostly meant reading (and influencing) the future. "Sorcerer" does have some associations with calling up spirits, but still retains more force in terms of casting lots than calling up soldiers. Think the kind of stuff Prospero does in The Tempest, where it is implied that Prospero himself has almost no mojo, and instead that it is spirits bound to his service which perform the various magical deeds.

Ironically, "wizard" by comparison is generally the less powerful of the two in fiction and historical usage. A sorcerer was a powerful, usually evil, practitioner of magic. A wizard could go either way and tended to be more limited. D&D has so successfully inverted this that it can be hard for those who grew up with D&D to think of it that way.

Yeah, I also had Prospero in mind when thinking about sorcery in the sense of summoning spirits to do the magic. The play Tempest refers to him as a "sorcerer".

Of course, the etymology of sorcery derives from casting lots to divinate information. But its usage is mainly for summoning spirits to harm enemies. But Prospero is an example of the spirits doing benign and helpful magic.

 

[Yaarel]

Prospero himself has almost no mojo, and instead that it is spirits bound to his service which perform the various magical deeds.

Exactly.

The Summoner is possibly a nonmagical Martial class. There is no innate magic of mage. Rather, the Summoner is learning the behaviors of magical spirits, to call and harness them.

The sorcery is almost like a kind of Animal Handling proficiency.

 

[Branduil]

If I were a designer, I'd stick to the classic archetypes of wizards in fantasy literature and pop culture. I'd probably do something like:

The Sojourner - a wizard who has traveled vastly, collecting a variety of magic and martial skills. Gandalf, Merlin...

The Academic - a wizard who prefers the hallways of a library to those of a dungeon, but ventures out to collect and spread knowledge. Dumbledore.

The Mystic - a wizard whose knowledge comes from self-study, often connected to the land, tradition, and deals with supernatural creatures. Witches, herbalists, etc.

The War Wizard - a wizard who makes things go boom. Magic the Gathering style wizard.

I like this because each path has a unique theme and isn't just "let's actually give the wizard 5 million subclasses and claim it's 4.

 

[Kobold Stew]

One thing that making all subclasses available at the same level opens up is the possibility for some subclasses that could be taken by more than one class. In some ways, that would bring back the idea of prestige classes, but in a more integrated way.

I would love to see Necromancer done this way, for example, offering benefits that could be taken by Clerics or Wizards.

 

[Mind of tempest]

One thing that making all subclasses available at the same level opens up is the possibility for some subclasses that could be taken by more than one class. In some ways, that would bring back the idea of prestige classes, but in a more integrated way.

I would love to see Necromancer done this way, for example, offering benefits that could be taken by Clerics or Wizards.

why would clerics be necromancers? I have never heard of that in fantasy?