D&D (2024) what should the wizard's subclasses be?

[Kobold Stew]

it is more why let everything be a necromancer when we can just make one really good one?

This is absolutely not what I'm suggesting, as I think you know.

My initial comment was about the design space that having subclass levels balanced across classes opens up. And then I gave an example relevant to the thread, where (for me) two classes both of which cast lots of spells within the necromancy school might choose to specialize in them.

This is relevant, because (apparently) the new PHB will only have four wizard subclasses, which means the previous specialize-by-school approach won't work the same way (some have suggested a school-specialist; that's of course still possible, but I think it will disappoint because of the range of things offered currently -- e.g. the level 6 abilities are all over the place, and would take up a lot of real estate if each were spelled out under a given subclass).

I like the idea of necromancers being either clerics or wizards; you don't -- that's fine. I've explained why in the history of the game I think that's valid, and that in a previous edition clerics were better necromancers than wizards. I can even double down on it and say that the subclass should also work for Warlocks, but that's not the point -- the point is there is design space here, and I don't think that space should be closed off. My example could easily have been illusion specialists that were sorcerers or wizards; scirmishers that are rogues or fighters, etc. (I won't even raise possible Paladin/ranger subclasses, but they're there too!)

It would take very little work to adapt the PHB necromancer into something that would be rich and viable for both clerics and wizards. Having that would not stop you from having the necromancer you want. And both could be "really good" -- but they'd be different!

 

[DeviousQuail]

I doubt WotC removes any of the current subclasses since that guarantees fans of a removed subclass getting mad. But assuming they do it anyway I think you need to hit a few archetypes: Gish, Specialist, Minion, Academic, and Weird.

Gish: Any wizard can get armor and weapons from other features and act like a gish. But there should be a couple subclasses that specifically lean into it. Bladesinger and War Mage are the obvious picks here. Bladesinger is the unarmored one while War Mage should get armor with options to lean into strength or dexterity. Most importantly they should be designed such that attacking people with weapons is not a trap option after a certain level.

Specialist: Illusionist, Diviner, Invoker, etc. The most important feature here is limiting their prepared spells. Unlike other wizards they should treat all spells of their school as prepared all of the time. Then they can prepare Int Mod (min 0) spells from other schools. You want to be an illusionist? Then act like it by casting a bunch of illusion spells. Finally, your class features should amplify your school spells so that no one else can cast your spells better than you.

Minion: Conjurer, Summoner, and a million other more specific minions. I'm a fan of a Golem Master subclass I designed years ago (totally not biased). Probably the most basic in terms of spells since their features will be focused on their minion(s).

Academic: Scribe, Lore, and Strixhaven subclasees. Really lean into the academic and general arcane magicalness of the wizard.

Weird: Runecrafter, Graviturgy, Chronurgy, and Necromancer. Either something specific that is outside the scope of the other archetypes or something that blends two or more of them together. The Necromancer definitely fits with Minion and Specialist.

That's a lot of stuff and WotC isn't going to do all of them at once. I'd start with Bladesinger, Illusionist, Conjurer, Scribe, and Necromancer. Each subset gets some representation and then they can be expanded upon down the line.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Three guilds and a fighter/wizard multiclass (unless there's already a fighter sub-class that does the same thing).

Plus, some guidance on how the guild was made, rules-wise, so that people can make their own for their home game. Then, acquire The Houses of Hermes for Ars Magica and make some really interesting guilds!

 

[Remathilis]

What I would like:

Master Specialist: An all-in-one school specialist that takes the eight current subs and makes a generic one out of them.
War Mage: Specialist in combat magic; adds a little martial ability (less than a blade-singer)
Witch: primal/arcane hybrid with a dollup of warlock
Bonded Summoner: Pet wizard

 

[CreamCloud0]

i suggested this in the survivor companion thread a bit back but more relevant to this discussion

The Specialist: further reduces capacity for learning/casting from banned spell schools than standard in exchange for bonuses to learning/casting from a specific school(s).
The Generalist: removes limitations for learning banned schools in exchange for mid-tier access across the board.
The Librarian: reduced number of spell slots in exchange for extra knowledge proficiencies and bonuses to knowledge checks.
The Researcher: low number of spells inherently known but reduced costs to transcribing new spells and creating spell scrolls.
The Pioneer: limited access to metamagics and/or divine/primal magics.
The Battlemage: focus on combat magics, armour proficiencies and war casting.
The Supporter: limited combat magics learnt but large number and access to utility, ritual and support spells.

seen people only picking four subclasses as that's how many it seems 1DnD classes will have so out of these i suggested the one's i'd pick would be: the Specialist, the Librarian, the Battlemage and the Supporter.

 

[Horwath]

Just make one (full)spellcasting class: Mage.

1. All spells available
2. Spells known and cantrips as sorcerer.
3. Lots of subclasses that define specialization of a given mage.
4. Every specialization gets 2 cantrips and 2 spells known from levels 1-5.

examples of extra spells known:

Healer;
cantrips; resistance, spare the dying
level 1; cure wounds, healing word
level 2; lesser restoration, healing spirit
level 3; mass healing word, revivify
level 4; Aura of light, death ward
level 5; mass cure wound, raise dead

Necromancer;
cantrips; chill touch, toll the dead
level 1; false life, inflict wounds
level 2; blindness/deafness, ray of enfeeblement
level 3; animate dead, summon undead
level 4; blight, shadow of moil
level 5; dance macabre, enervation

Kineticist;
cantrips; eldritch blast, mage hand
level 1; magic missile, shield
level 2; levitate, kinetic jaunt
level 3; fly, haste
level 4; Mordekainen's faithful hound, Otiluke's resilient sphere
level 5; animate objects, telekinesis

Traveler;
cantrips; guidance, mage hand
level 1; expeditious retreat, longstrider
level 2; misty step, vortex warp
level 3; thunder step, gaseous form
level 4; dimension door, find greater steed
level 5; passwall, teleportation circle

Greenseer;
cantrips; primal savagery, thorn whip
level 1; entangle, fog cloud
level 2; spike growth, pass without trace
level 3; plant growth, summon fey
level 4; guardian of nature, summon elemental
level 5; insect plague, wrath of nature

Pyromancer;
cantrips; firebolt, greenflame blade
level 1; burning hands, hellish rebuke
level 2; scorching ray, heat metal
level 3; fireball, ashardalon's stride
level 4; fireshield(fire), summon elemental(fire)
level 5; immolation, summon draconic spirit(fire)

Mindbender:
cantrips; friends, mind sliver
level 1; charm person, dissonant whispers
level 2; hold person, suggestion
level 3; enemies abound, fear
level 4; charm monster, phantasmal killer
level 5; dominate person, modify memory

Illusionist;
cantrips; message, minor image
level 1; disguise self, minor image
level 2; invisibility, mirror image
level 3; hypnotic patter, major image
level 4; greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain
level 5; dream, seeming

Defender;
cantrips; bladeward, sword burst
level 1; absorb elements, armor of agathys
level 2; aid, blur
level 3; counterspell, dispel magic
level 4; banishment, freedom of movement
level 5; bigbies hand, dispel good and evil

5. Add appropriate subclass features at levels 1(or 2 or 3),6,10,14.

 

[Remathilis]

Just make one (full)spellcasting class: Mage.

Maybe in 2030-something, when 6e is properly announced. But 1Dnd is going to keep all the caster classes for now.

 

[Horwath]

Maybe in 2030-something, when 6e is properly announced. But 1Dnd is going to keep all the caster classes for now.

2034. 6E, 60th anniversary of D&D

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Just make one (full)spellcasting class: Mage.

1. All spells available
2. Spells known and cantrips as sorcerer.
3. Lots of subclasses that define specialization of a given mage.
4. Every specialization gets 2 cantrips and 2 spells known from levels 1-5.

examples of extra spells known:

Healer;
cantrips; resistance, spare the dying
level 1; cure wounds, healing word
level 2; lesser restoration, healing spirit
level 3; mass healing word, revivify
level 4; Aura of light, death ward
level 5; mass cure wound, raise dead

Necromancer;
cantrips; chill touch, toll the dead
level 1; false life, inflict wounds
level 2; blindness/deafness, ray of enfeeblement
level 3; animate dead, summon undead
level 4; blight, shadow of moil
level 5; dance macabre, enervation

Kineticist;
cantrips; eldritch blast, mage hand
level 1; magic missile, shield
level 2; levitate, kinetic jaunt
level 3; fly, haste
level 4; Mordekainen's faithful hound, Otiluke's resilient sphere
level 5; animate objects, telekinesis

Traveler;
cantrips; guidance, mage hand
level 1; expeditious retreat, longstrider
level 2; misty step, vortex warp
level 3; thunder step, gaseous form
level 4; dimension door, find greater steed
level 5; passwall, teleportation circle

Greenseer;
cantrips; primal savagery, thorn whip
level 1; entangle, fog cloud
level 2; spike growth, pass without trace
level 3; plant growth, summon fey
level 4; guardian of nature, summon elemental
level 5; insect plague, wrath of nature

Pyromancer;
cantrips; firebolt, greenflame blade
level 1; burning hands, hellish rebuke
level 2; scorching ray, heat metal
level 3; fireball, ashardalon's stride
level 4; fireshield(fire), summon elemental(fire)
level 5; immolation, summon draconic spirit(fire)

Mindbender:
cantrips; friends, mind sliver
level 1; charm person, dissonant whispers
level 2; hold person, suggestion
level 3; enemies abound, fear
level 4; charm monster, phantasmal killer
level 5; dominate person, modify memory

Illusionist;
cantrips; message, minor image
level 1; disguise self, minor image
level 2; invisibility, mirror image
level 3; hypnotic patter, major image
level 4; greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain
level 5; dream, seeming

Defender;
cantrips; bladeward, sword burst
level 1; absorb elements, armor of agathys
level 2; aid, blur
level 3; counterspell, dispel magic
level 4; banishment, freedom of movement
level 5; bigbies hand, dispel good and evil

5. Add appropriate subclass features at levels 1(or 2 or 3),6,10,14.

This. But each Mage can unlock more than one ''school'', so you can make you own spell list by taking the ''school'' you want.

Then you can have your different archetypes:
Scholar (skill + ritualist)
Sorcerer (metamagic, endurance features, no focus)
Warlock (summoning, planar communication, edgy stuff)
Warmage (armored, weapon wielder)
Psion (no focus, esoteric mind stuff)


So I can then have a Sorcerer mage with a specialization in Fire, Illusion, and Fey schools. Or a Warlock with a Defense, Healing and Necromancy schools.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Just make one (full)spellcasting class: Mage.

1. All spells available
2. Spells known and cantrips as sorcerer.
3. Lots of subclasses that define specialization of a given mage.
4. Every specialization gets 2 cantrips and 2 spells known from levels 1-5.

examples of extra spells known:

Healer;
cantrips; resistance, spare the dying
level 1; cure wounds, healing word
level 2; lesser restoration, healing spirit
level 3; mass healing word, revivify
level 4; Aura of light, death ward
level 5; mass cure wound, raise dead

Necromancer;
cantrips; chill touch, toll the dead
level 1; false life, inflict wounds
level 2; blindness/deafness, ray of enfeeblement
level 3; animate dead, summon undead
level 4; blight, shadow of moil
level 5; dance macabre, enervation

Kineticist;
cantrips; eldritch blast, mage hand
level 1; magic missile, shield
level 2; levitate, kinetic jaunt
level 3; fly, haste
level 4; Mordekainen's faithful hound, Otiluke's resilient sphere
level 5; animate objects, telekinesis

Traveler;
cantrips; guidance, mage hand
level 1; expeditious retreat, longstrider
level 2; misty step, vortex warp
level 3; thunder step, gaseous form
level 4; dimension door, find greater steed
level 5; passwall, teleportation circle

Greenseer;
cantrips; primal savagery, thorn whip
level 1; entangle, fog cloud
level 2; spike growth, pass without trace
level 3; plant growth, summon fey
level 4; guardian of nature, summon elemental
level 5; insect plague, wrath of nature

Pyromancer;
cantrips; firebolt, greenflame blade
level 1; burning hands, hellish rebuke
level 2; scorching ray, heat metal
level 3; fireball, ashardalon's stride
level 4; fireshield(fire), summon elemental(fire)
level 5; immolation, summon draconic spirit(fire)

Mindbender:
cantrips; friends, mind sliver
level 1; charm person, dissonant whispers
level 2; hold person, suggestion
level 3; enemies abound, fear
level 4; charm monster, phantasmal killer
level 5; dominate person, modify memory

Illusionist;
cantrips; message, minor image
level 1; disguise self, minor image
level 2; invisibility, mirror image
level 3; hypnotic patter, major image
level 4; greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain
level 5; dream, seeming

Defender;
cantrips; bladeward, sword burst
level 1; absorb elements, armor of agathys
level 2; aid, blur
level 3; counterspell, dispel magic
level 4; banishment, freedom of movement
level 5; bigbies hand, dispel good and evil

5. Add appropriate subclass features at levels 1(or 2 or 3),6,10,14.

look you start down that path we just end up classless and that is not an upgrade merely a side grade.