What the Dorruh are you doing to my Eberron?

[Grymar]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

WotC is all about ^that^

Now profit isn't a bad thing, but there should also be a line where what you create has some value beyond the dollars and cents. What WotC just did is selling out, nothing more, nothing less.

Eberron is the place that was different. A different take on orcs, elves, alignment, the planes, gods....

This is like an old candy commercial...You got your Warforged in my Realms! Well, you got your Feywild in my Eberron!

All so they can sell more books.

Look at me, I've been DM'ing Eberron since not long after the Campaign Setting was released. I've bought nearly every Eberron book and a few adventures since. I'd even say I'm more of an Eberron DM than a D&D DM. But I didn't buy FC1/2, even though I got the PHB2, Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium. The FC books just didn't add anything to my game. Wizards of the Coast didn't like that.

What is good for me is that it doesn't matter. I'm starting a new campaign right now which is going to use Pathfinder. I dislike 4e and have yet to spend a dime on any Wizards' products since it's release (not boycotting, just don't want it). I was going to buy the Eberron 4e books to a) support Hellcow and b) to get the new fluff, but I see that it won't be necessary.

So in the end, thanks for saving me some money. Paizo appreciates it.

 

[Reynard]

Wow, we get Cybermen, Borg, and Death Star references. Go Sci-Fi!

Well, it is the setting with robots and mag-lev trains...


ducks. runs.

 

[I'm A Banana]

On the other hand, "everything that exists in D&D exists in Eberron" was something they originally sold Eberron as, back before it was even released in the 3E era. From that perspective, this is a perfectly unsurprising change.

You were always supposed to be able to pick up a non-setting-specific WotC book and be able use it with your Eberron game.

Right. Everything has a place in Eberron. That's part of why this is so backwards -- Eberron's cosmology already accommodated all of 4e's things. Its cosmology didn't need to be bulldozed to make way for the World Sandwich. Eberron had a "feywild." It had a "shadowfell." It had places for extraplanar baddies (including abyssal lords and the like if you wanted to use them -- though the idea of rakshasa vs. coutal was always effin' stellar in my book).

They get it backwards. Eberron's cosmology doesn't need an overhaul in order to fit in 4eisms. 4eisms have a place in Eberron as it exists.

I mean, I think the whole "they're blowin' up mah setting!" hyperbole is a little much -- this is no Spellplague. But it's still a dumb idea.

 

[Remathilis]

I mean, I think the whole "they're blowin' up mah setting!" hyperbole is a little much -- this is no Spellplague. But it's still a dumb idea.

True, they didn't advance the timeline, nor are they looking at another Day of Mourning scenario to introduce 4e-isms. That said, I agree; it wasn't needed. Kythri was a suitable replacement for the Elemental Chaos; most of your EC monsters (like archons or titans) fit perfectly well there. You didn't need the Abyss to have balors.

And if the dragonmark thing is true, I worry what else is changing...

 

[Holy Bovine]

I have a strange feeling that some Eberron fans would burn me at the stake for what I have done in my 4E Eberron campaign. Demons? Yup. Devils? Yup. Standard cosmology? Nope. Dragonmarks? No anymore since the demons showed up.

My point is that people really need to get over their fear of change. It is a new edition. Anyone who thought everything (or hell, anything) would stay the same was just fooling themselves. I will judge the new version of Eberron the same way I did the new edition - reading the books and playing the game.

 

[I'm A Banana]

My point is that people really need to get over their fear of change.

Okay, this tired old assumption has got to go.

It's possible that this isn't a fear of change as much as it is a fear of their games not being as much fun anymore.

That is a legitimate fear.

I mean, if I replaced your regular morning coffee with kitty litter and you spat it out, I wouldn't really assume you were just afraid of change, and that you would really like kitty litter if only you would learn to get over your misconceptions about it and drink a cup full. 4e isn't quite kitty litter coffee, but it isn't always the change that gets people -- sometimes (often!) what gets people is the fact that it is a change for the worse.

This fear is especially big when you've been having fun just fine with something, then someone comes along and tells you you've been doing it wrong all this time, and that you really want to have fun in a different way.

It's not the change. It's what it changes into.

 

[pawsplay]

If Eberron is just a flavor of D&D Blob, what is the point of even having Eberron?

 

[I'm A Banana]

If Eberron is just a flavor of D&D Blob, what is the point of even having Eberron?

Part of me is kind of disappointed in the possibility that a demand for absolute interactivity (Spelljammers in Dark Sun! Tieflings in Ravenloft! Defilers in Birthright! Strahd in the Realms!) means that 4e is really only capable of producing one campaign setting.

It might release Dark Sun, but it'll just be "4e in the desert!"

It would be really pretty pathetic.

Nothing says they're doing this for sure yet -- this is rampant speculation -- but there is evidence that just continues to mount that a requirement for anything 4e puts out is that it also is able to fit everything 4e puts out. FR and Eberron had it easy, and FR got torn a new one, and Eberron very well might get beat with the idiot stick a few times. If they do that to the inclusive settings....I'm not optimistic about what they'll do to the more alien ones.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I think integrating aspects of both planar concepts will be actually quite interesting - if they retain the central aspects of the Eberron planes (ebb and flow etc.), i have no problem with this.
I have a problem with aspects of this thread, but i fear this mix of "i don´t like change and will use every new shred of information to bash away preemtively" has become some kind of sad everyday occurence on ENworld. Oh well.

 

[humble minion]

Dark Sun (if the persistent rumours turn out to be right and Athas is the campaign setting released in the 'Psionic year') will be the acid test regarding whether or not WotC is pursuing a 'conformity at all costs' strategy. As long as there's a Feywild and wet bits in the Elemental Chaos, then Athas as written is completely unfeasible.

With massive amounts of water/fertile soil only a planar boundary away, and the major Athasian cities ruled by monumentally powerful epic spellcasters who would be perfectly capable of creating permanent portals for irrigation etc, something will have to give...