D&D 4E What to do with 4th Edition

kenada

Legend
Supporter
More important to me, however, is what it says about the author and the OGL. This is not an efficient product if its borrowing from every possible source it can find. That's all well and go for the specific game they want to create, but not for an all-purpose OGL, which I believe is what we're discussing here. (Aren't we? Everyone seems to keep glossing over that little distinction.)
What does it say, exactly? This reads like insinuation that hobbyists can’t be trusted to follow the terms of the OGL. In that case, how can they be trusted to do a full restatement on their own without the risk of its being declared a derivative work? What you want then is effectively impossible.
 

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glass

(he, him)
OK, (hopefully) slightly better response, as promised:
So what am I missing about the Orcus OGL that makes it a candidate for the whole community to start adapting?
That it is probably the only option.

By far the safest way to do a retroclone is to find open-content precedents for the distinctive mechanics and terminology, and by definition those precedents are going to be scattered around (because if they were all in one convenient place then that system would already be the 4e clone we are looking for). Anyone else undertaking the same project is going to end up with an s.15 of similar length (and similar if not identical contents), because that is how you protect yourself.

Possibly, not all the references are strictly necessary, but nobody except possibly an extremely expensive lawyer (the kind WotC can afford and you cannot, for almost all values of "you") can tell you which ones - and maybe not even one of those. So in they all go.

The only way a 4e SRD that does not have an s.15 that looks like that is going to happen, is if WotC released one directly. Which would be nice, but lets not hold our collective breath.

EDIT: Or, what @Garthanos said.

_
glass.
 
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eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
Possibly, not all the references are strictly necessary, but nobody except possibly an extremely expensive lawyer (the kind WotC can afford and you cannot, for almost all values of "you") - and maybe not even one of those. So in they all go.
This was my thinking too. I don't think that having stuff in there that you, in your retroclone, technically didn't use is going to hurt you at all?
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
This was my thinking too. I don't think that having stuff in there that you, in your retroclone, technically didn't use is going to hurt you at all?
It will apparently make people not want to use your system as a base for their work. To be honest, I find some of the things listed a bit questionable. Why are so many different games (including e.g., Level Up: Advanced 5e, which was just released), random adventures, wikis that no longer exist, and SRD republishing websites listed?
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
It will apparently make people not want to use your system as a base for their work. To be honest, I find some of the things listed a bit questionable. Why are so many different games (including e.g., Level Up: Advanced 5e, which was just released), random adventures, wikis that no longer exist, and SRD republishing websites listed?

Are they supposed to list everything on the license page of the book they are quoting from, or just the particular book they are quoting?
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
Are they supposed to list everything on the license page of the book they are quoting from, or just the particular book they are quoting?
As I understand it, you have to include the section 15 copyright declarations for everything you use along with adding your own to the list.

Section 6 of the OGL said:
Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder’s name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.
 
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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
You have to include the section 15 copyright declarations for everything you use along with adding your own to the list.
That's what I thought, but A5E includes the Pathfinder Core in it's list, but not The Book of Experimental Might that my copy of Pathfinder Core includes. Similarly, the Bestiary includes Tome of Horrors III for one of its monsters (but it lists which monster) but A5E doesn't list it.

@Morrus has done this a lot and so I'd guess you and I are misreading it?
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
That's what I thought, but A5E includes the Pathfinder Core in it's list, but not The Book of Experimental Might that my copy of Pathfinder Core includes. Similarly, the Bestiary includes Tome of Horrors III for one of its monsters (but it lists which monster) but A5E doesn't list it.

@Morrus has done this a lot and so I'd guess you and I are misreading it?
All I’ve got is having read many years ago that section 15 declarations were one of the things publishers would get wrong. It was on the Paizo forum, but I can’t remember where I read it. I did find this thread which suggests there is some nuance to it, but the safest approach is to recursively list everything (edit: also this thread).

Edit 2: Owen K C Stephens has a pretty good explanation why one might see varying section 15 declarations across a publisher’s products. Not saying whether or not that applies in this scenario, but it explains some of the questions people had regarding monsters from bestiaries.
 
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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
All I’ve got is having read many years ago that section 15 declarations were one of the things publishers would get wrong. It was on the Paizo forum, but I can’t remember where I read it. I did find this thread which suggests there is some nuance to it, but the safest approach is to recursively list everything (edit: also this thread).
I know for the one project I kind of did I put in everything. It was really long!
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The references of various other OGLs are to justify "recreation" of 4e ---> as opposed to just claiming this is content that happens to look like 4e which has a nasty license

It is an act of self defense
Note the self defense is not 100 percent required... one could make a from the ground up and simply give it an OGL license Call encounter powers Scene Powers and Dailies - Climactic Powers. etc etc etc. If you avoid copyright and trademark you should be good to go.
 

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