D&D (2024) What type of ranger would your prefer for 2024?

[CreamCloud0]

The issue is though is that that implies magic is merely a learned skill rather than a specific thing only the few are capable of.

sorry don't see that as an issue, and that's before even getting into 'PCs are inherently superior to NPCs' arguments.

And thats before you get into how much more interesting being able to survive in a potentially magical wilderness is if you're not magical yourself.

i also consider this a bit of a non-factor.

In Jumanji, Alan Parish isn't interesting because he just used jungle magic to survive for 30 years in the game.

Hes interesting because he was just a regular, sheltered rich kid who managed to survive and become Robin Williams the Wildman after 30 years, no magic required.

i don't consider alan parish a ranger, or interesting because he survived for 30 years in the jungle.

what alan did and what a DnD ranger is present two wildly different versions of a concept, the point of the story of alan isn't that he survived in the jungle for 30 years but when he gets back and everything he knew is gone or changed and his regrets on how he parted with his father..

 

[CleverNickName]

I voted for a no-spells Ranger. I think there is plenty of room in the game for a non-magic "warden of the forest" or "skilled hunter" without encroaching on the Barbarian or the Druid's archetypes. If they can't do that, they might as well make the Ranger a subclass of Fighter.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm more in; delete short rest, base everything on long rest.
As an Action you can spend am HD for healing,
5th level, up to two HDs
11th level, up to 3 HDs
17th level, up to 4 HDs
some classes at certain levels might improve this to Bonus action.
or remove HDs and just recharge 25% of max HP, 2×prof bonus per day.

HDs recharge at long rest.

so you have at-will, and long rest recharge.

My problem with daily (long rest) powers is, it accumulates too much power at one time that can be unloaded in a nova.

For spell casters versus non casters, this can be hugely unbalancing and swingy.

By contrast, the breather (short rest) keeps better pacing with the always-on non casters.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Druids (and thus Rangers), Clerics and Wizards all cast magic differently. Clerics pray to the gods of the Outer Planes to send a miracle. Druids invoke Fey or Elemental "nature gods" to do stuff for them. Neither involves yelling or "flapping your hands like a drunk mime."

A whispered prayer to the local spirits fits very well as the Ranger V component. Many of the Ranger spells' material components are their weapons themselves, and the spells describe the somatic components as "you brandish the weapon used to cast the spell." Its all very natural movements that make sense for a hunter.

Portraying the Ranger as yelling and flapping hands is very much not accurate in any way, shape, or form.

I agree to a certain extent. However, spellcasting components are a legitimate balancing factor for spell-casting classes. They can cast fireballs and divinations and alter reality in ways, but unless they have an ability saying they can cast those spells "subtly" (like sorcerers can), it is obvious that they are casting spells. It doesn't mean they are yelling and flapping their hands like a drunk muppet, but it is clear they are visibly (for Somatic) and audibly (for Verbal) casting a spell. No unheard whispers or hidden gestures. I allow absolutely no exceptions outside of accepted rules, which makes Sorcerers the go-to casters who want to be subtle in their spellcasting.

That said, I do have a house rule for the Silence spell. It no longer has a V component, and it has an additional optional function to choose from. Back in 2E there was a "Sound Bubble" spell that created a barrier that sound couldn't pass through. If someone wants to have a conversation or cast a spell without being overheard, they can surround themselves with the Sound Bubble option of the Silence spell. (I like giving spells bullet point options for flexibility, when they make sense to me.) As of UA6, it looks like Silence is only in the Divine and Primal spell lists, so it isn't available to Arcane Bards, interestingly.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Exactly! So why get all bent out of shape over any of it?

Ask the folks that raise the scary specter of the game 'not being D&D' or some junk whenever people suggest improvements in the forum about the revision to the game..

 

[Emberashh]

sorry don't see that as an issue, and that's before even getting into 'PCs are inherently superior to NPCs' arguments.

Then you undervalue magic itself.

i don't consider alan parish a ranger, or interesting because he survived for 30 years in the jungle.

I do and do. A wildman who helps some unwitting little people survive the horrors of a vast wilderness they have no hope of combatting on their own?

Thats literally what Rangers are.

And thats just what he does. That he ended up like that because he was a suburban rich kid in the 1960s that got sucked into a board game and, somehow, managed to not die immediately, is vastly interesting and would have been a fascinating movie unto itself.

 

[Mephista]

A great number of things in these games don't actually need to have a cost to begin with.

And many of them do. Getting supernatural beings to do things for you is a well established thing we have mechanics and limits for that entire classes are based on. Undermining a good chunk of the game is not a good argument.

Yes, trying to skirt around the fact that different mechanics fundamentally feel different by relegating them to "opinions" or making non-sequitors to irrelevancies is a cop out.

And I say that ignoring core book established differences is a cop out on your part.

See how just calling something a cop out is extremely unhelpful of an argument, just because someone disagrees with you?

Flavor is free, but thats like saying only getting the sprinkles is the same thing as getting the sundae.

I'm sensing a double standard.

For one, that isn't what I suggested.

Yes, yes you did. You are suggesting taking everything like Monster Hunter and Beast Master that's a key component of "Ranger" for many people out and moving them to later, separate classes so you can have a Ranger that fits your ideals.

Literally a spellcasting monster hunter would have the core book Ranger mechanics. Because that's a huge pillar of what makes the Ranger a Ranger. A hunter of monsters.

 

[Reef]

I do and do. A wildman who helps some unwitting little people survive the horrors of a vast wilderness they have no hope of combatting on their own?

Thats literally what Rangers are.

And how is not that just someone with a high Survival skill? Or if that isn’t a high Survival skill, what is a high Survival skill for?

And if it is Survival, why do we need special class abilities for an existing skill?

Edit to clarify (again): I’m not trying to get rid of Rangers. I like rangers. I’m fighting against the concept they need to lose magic in order to service an archetype that already is doable under existing rules.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

And actual Ranger stuff does justify having it as an archtype, as theres more to the Ranger than just Aragorn. Theres also Faramir, Robin Hood, Will Treaty, and a host of others.

Robin Hood is as much a ranger as Chriss Angel is a wizard. He exists in a non-magical world, so of course he doesn't have magical abilities. In D&D terms, he's a fighter or rogue. He's some former noble who lives in the woods, has a goon squad by leveraging that Diplomacy, and robs people at bowpoint. Aragorn is a very specific GUY, not an archetype, unless we want to argue rangers should also get an army of the dead and a legacy magic sword.

Also worth noting he's in a world that D&D characters aren't appropriate in, with their massive player facing magic. There's no good reason any class shouldn't have fantastical abilities in the D&D baseline. It always struck me that the reason 1E rangers could cast both magic-user and druid spells was because why wouldn't someone who is often a solo operator use all the tools at their disposal in a magical world? It's like making a cyberpunk solo character and not being able to hack. Like I'm fine if their magic isn't spells, but spells and only spells seem to be what we're mainly saddled with. Like a FF Blue Mage type monster hunter who gets abilities based on what they are hunting would be cool, but lets face it, WOTC isn't going to rock the boat for fear of angering the grognards again.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Ask the folks that raise the scary specter of the game 'not being D&D' or some junk whenever people suggest improvements in the forum about the revision to the game..

Heh heh... you see me do that all the time. You're not the only one with whom I go tete-a-tete on these kinds of things, LOL!