D&D (2024) What type of ranger would your prefer for 2024?

[Emberashh]

Beastmaster should be its own class so it has room to actually explore the concept without being shackled to a bunch of things it doesn't actually have anything to do with.

 

[Minigiant]

Nope, if you are going to expand Primal, one of them is the Barbarian.

Beast Master is best as subclasses for Barbarian, Ranger, and Druid.

Barbarian is not necessarily Primal.

Beastmaster will ultimately never be fully satisfactory if it if it has the baggage of a full caster or full martial attached to it.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Barbarian is not necessarily Primal.

Except it was in 4e when the idea of primal power was coined, and the One DnD playtest has explicitly leaned back into that idea of Barbarians tapping into primal power.

For most of DnD's history, the Druid was a Divine class using Divine magic. But once Primal was a thing, it was clear that Druids, Rangers and Barbarians were the classes that defined it (yes, the Ranger was Martial, but Rangers are half-Druid, and the later Seeker and Warden classes picked up the slack.)

Beastmaster will ultimately never be fully satisfactory if it if it has the baggage of a full caster or full martial attached to it.

Maybe, but it is an incredibly hard concept to make a full class around, and would require strip mining the artificer as well. Plus, it just doesn't have enough unique concepts. Mechanically, the beast master with a swarm of bees fights the same as one with a robo-bear and one with a panther and one with a dragon.

It works just as well to have it worked into the other classes, rather than trying to work the other classes into a beast master structure.

 

[Minigiant]

Except it was in 4e when the idea of primal power was coined, and the One DnD playtest has explicitly leaned back into that idea of Barbarians tapping into primal power.

For most of DnD's history, the Druid was a Divine class using Divine magic. But once Primal was a thing, it was clear that Druids, Rangers and Barbarians were the classes that defined it (yes, the Ranger was Martial, but Rangers are half-Druid, and the later Seeker and Warden classes picked up the slack.)

The Ancestral Guardian and Zealot Barbarian have Divine flavor.

The Wild Magic Barbarian could be seen as Arcane.

Maybe, but it is an incredibly hard concept to make a full class around, and would require strip mining the artificer as well. Plus, it just doesn't have enough unique concepts. Mechanically, the beast master with a swarm of bees fights the same as one with a robo-bear and one with a panther and one with a dragon.

It works just as well to have it worked into the other classes, rather than trying to work the other classes into a beast master structure.

How do.

The full Beastmaster seems like the easiest subclass to make into a full class.

 

[Emberashh]

Mechanically, the beast master with a swarm of bees fights the same as one with a robo-bear and one with a panther and one with a dragon.

Your concept of what combat is and could be is deeply shallow if you think those things are all (or should be) mechanically identical.

Two of those things fly my dude. Just that alone is a huge discrepancy in how they'll play, and nevermind the dramatic size difference between them.

And thats all before you start bringing in the Psionic features it should have if we're looking to do Dar, or the Summoning stuff ala my game.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Your concept of what combat is and could be is deeply shallow if you think those things are all (or should be) mechanically identical.

Two of those things fly my dude. Just that alone is a huge discrepancy in how they'll play, and nevermind the dramatic size difference between them.

And thats all before you start bringing in the Psionic features it should have if we're looking to do Dar, or the Summoning stuff ala my game.

eh, i don't think they're too far off the mark, don't make them outright identical but a couple of Familiar Summon templates with a list of secondary traits and modifier templates would woundn't take up too much room and would likely cover a large swathe of customisation, small, medium, large and multiple summon base, set a baseline for hitdie, AC, movespeed, then apply more niche traits like improved natural weapons or combat abilities, flyspeed, resistances, swarm, better AC, better movespeed, limited casting, ect, ect...

beeswarm [multi summon template] +swarm, +flyspeed, +natural weapon effect(stinger-paralysis),
robobear [medium summon template] +construct, +multiattack(bite and claw), +natural armour(metal plating)
dragon [medium summon template] +flyspeed, +breathweapon, +natural armour(scales)
panther [medium summon template] +movespeed, +multiattack(bite and claw), +improved senses(darkvision and perception bonus)

 

[Minigiant]

And thats all before you start bringing in the Psionic features it should have if we're looking to do Dar, or the Summoning stuff ala my game.

or going into other fantasy like Warcarft's Rexxar and his retinue of beasts empowered by magic

or down Naruto's ninja Inuzuka Clan where you "cast spells" turn dogs into bullets, buzzsaws, and clones of yourself.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The Ancestral Guardian and Zealot Barbarian have Divine flavor.

The Wild Magic Barbarian could be seen as Arcane.

And the Divine Soul Sorcerer and Celestial Warlock have divine flavor, while the Nature Cleric and Arcane Cleric have primal and Divine flavor respectively. Your point?

How do.

The full Beastmaster seems like the easiest subclass to make into a full class.

A class, sure, but one lacking subclasses. Dragon could be a subclass, but someone with a wolf, a panther, a bear, an elk, or a gator is all going to have to be the same subclass, despite wildly different flavors.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Your concept of what combat is and could be is deeply shallow if you think those things are all (or should be) mechanically identical.

Two of those things fly my dude. Just that alone is a huge discrepancy in how they'll play, and nevermind the dramatic size difference between them.

Yes, two of those things fly. But that doesn't change what the Beastmaster is doing. Think about this, a Beastmaster ranger with a Hawk, with a sea turtle, and with a dog are all going to have the same abilities and the same combat options. Their BEASTS are different and have different options, but that doesn't make the SUBCLASS different.

The Swarmkeeper ranger has different mechanics... but it isn't a pet-class. They don't play like a beast master, because the swarm is an effect, not a targetable entity. The Drakewarden is a little different, but mostly it is because it was better written and gives some elemental effects.

If you pulled an entire class out, focused on making you a pet-character... then they would all have to start from the same baseline class abilities. Then the subclasses would be... kind of limited. You can break them in a few different categories, but most of the time it will be "one single powerful beast goes in melee, and my character does something else" The only reason currently that the various pet-subclasses can be as different as they are, is that they are somewhat split between different classes. A necromancer wizard MUST play differently than a Beast Master Ranger which is different than a Battle SMith Artificer, because they are all different classes at their baseline. Take that away, and it becomes much more likely that many concepts will get smashed together and you just reflavor for the difference.

And thats all before you start bringing in the Psionic features it should have if we're looking to do Dar, or the Summoning stuff ala my game.

Psionic features and your game have nothing to do with the current design. In fact, Psionics have little to nothing to do with this style of class at all. It is just a way to command the beast.

 

[Minigiant]

And the Divine Soul Sorcerer and Celestial Warlock have divine flavor, while the Nature Cleric and Arcane Cleric have primal and Divine flavor respectively. Your point?

My point is that it was never clear cut in 5e.

A class, sure, but one lacking subclasses. Dragon could be a subclass, but someone with a wolf, a panther, a bear, an elk, or a gator is all going to have to be the same subclass, despite wildly different flavors.

It only lacks subclasses if you don't imagine them.

Dragonrider
Monster tamer (talk on monstrosity companions)
Hound Master/Packmaster (a pack of beasts)
Falconer (flying beast)
Fey speaker (give your beast fey features)
Beastmorph (meld with beast into a wereform)
Chimera (mold beasts together)