D&D 5E (+)What Ubiquitous DnD Tropes Get It Totally Wrong?

[Charlaquin]

Don't demons come from mortals more often than not?

By the default lore, yes. The souls CE mortals become demons after they die, which is the flip side of the “good is only meaningful if it’s a choice” coin. But if you’re arguing that Gruumsh makes orcs to make more CE souls, you’re first of all arguing that orcs have souls, which I would say is a point against them having fixed alignment, and second of all, seems like an unnecessary extra step if the end goal is to make more demons.

Also, mortals are probably easier to boss around (Not because they're less powerful mind you - Gruumsh is plenty tough enough to take on any demon - but because they're less crazy)

Are CE mortals less crazy than CE demons? I guess, maybe. For me, I don’t think that’s enough to justify created mortals not having free will.

 

[Charlaquin]

"The cat's mother"? What does that mean?

It’s a figure of speech, kind of an old-fashioned one. Usually it’s said in response to being referred to as “she”: “who is she? The cat’s mother?” to indicate that it’s impolite to refer to someone obliquely like that.

 

[Oofta]

The FR is effectively a canon part of D&D. One of the main MMs has Volo's name in the title. Orcs being optionally playable is an unarguable part of D&D, and not just in Eberron. Orcs have moral freedom by default, in D&D. That their 5E statblocks are all/largely CE merely reflects the default status of those particular types. This has been consistent across basically every edition possibly barring 1E.

Any specific campaign doesn't really affect other campaigns. Yes, we have a "voice" behind a book. We also have spells named after Rary and Leomund. So?

The FR is effectively a canon part of D&D. One of the
By whom? The cat's mother?

What an utterly meaningless claim, and without any kind of citation or evidence. That's basically weasel words.

You just stated:

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Demons and devils are all evil (barring weird counter-magic) because the lore and text assert that they are all evil because they are essentially magical representatives of evil.​

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You just claimed that all demons and devils are evil.

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What the MM actually says about fiends is:

Fiends are creatures of wickedness that are native to the Lower Planes.​

Says nothing about being magical representatives of evil.

Meanwhile, the MM "lore and text" on orcs says:

Orcs are savage humanoids with stooped postures, piggish faces, and prominent teeth that resemble tusks. They gather in tribes that satisfy their bloodlust by slaying any humanoids that stand against them.​

It then goes on to explain they were a race created by a vengeful god. From a purely rules text point of view I don't see a difference.

Yeah they're actually a hell of a lot closer to a human than a fiend is. That's not even arguable. They're mortal beings for starters, not immortal representatives of evil.

Which is a statement not supported by any text in the core books. Neither orcs nor fiends are human. You may decide that some monsters are closer to human and it may be part and parcel of certain campaign settings. It is not a statement made in any of the core books that I know of so all statements of "X is more human than Y" about fictional creatures cannot be a fact and is instead an opinion and ruling. Feel free to rule differently than I do.

You are drawing a different line on when it is acceptable to say a non-human monster is evil than I draw.

 

[Oofta]

BTW: I made a flippant - not serious - comment about it always being okay to kill orcs. It's more nuanced in my campaigns than that, not that I remember it ever coming up.

Heck, I'm not even sure orcs are born like normal mortals or if they're "dug up" like in the LOTR movies. It's just something I don't want to deal with because it's a game.

 

[Bohandas]

Are CE mortals less crazy than CE demons? I guess, maybe. For me, I don’t think that’s enough to justify created mortals not having free will.

No, the point is that as the embodiment of CE demons, the really pure demons at any rate, do have free will. Like the Joker in Dark Knight pure chaos and evil can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.

 

[Charlaquin]

No, the point is that as the embodiment of CE demons, the really pure demons at any rate, do have free will. Like the Joker in Dark Knight pure chaos and evil can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.

If demons have free will then they shouldn’t have fixed alignments either, and that just wouldn’t make any sense IMO.

 

[Charlaquin]

Which is a statement not supported by any text in the core books.

Except for their creature type, which literally has the word “human” in it.

 

[Oofta]

Except for their creature type, which literally has the word “human” in it.

Humanoid just means that they have the same basic shape and form as a human. A robot can be described as humanoid.

 

[Charlaquin]

Humanoid just means that they have the same basic shape and form as a human. A robot can be described as humanoid.

That’s not what it means in D&D, otherwise succubi would be humanoid.

 

[Oofta]

That’s not what it means in D&D, otherwise succubi would be humanoid.

The MM they define humanoid: "They have language and culture, few if any innate magical abilities (though most humanoids can learn spellcasting), and a bipedal form. "

They speak and they're bipedal. Doesn't make them human any more than manuals are masculine.